Redesigning MUME.org web page

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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Vortenos on Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:06 pm

I really like the textured background.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Erondil on Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:26 pm

I have to agree about the font, I think it was a situation not to see the wood for the trees. On the graphic-program it looks better, but after some change that the map look old, used, creased,..., this is also one reason why it is not blank, with the format change to jpeg some quality get lost. I will see how to make it better, in the worst case I have to write the text new and do the rest again.

@Ortansia
If you have some nice symbols please send it to "test_mail@eudoramail.com", you know everything what I have not do by my self is a help ;) I spend some time on the map and sometimes I thought I have overstrain my self with the map because during the drawing it did not look how I expect it :x, I hope for the rest I don't have to spend so much time.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Ortansia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:30 pm

Erondil do you have msn?
I will send you a pm with my msn on it
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Erondil on Fri Apr 18, 2008 2:41 pm

Sorry, but I don't use msn, icq or something similar.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Ortansia on Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:52 pm

Not a problem :p . I sent you a Pm and mail . Hope you got them :)
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Timodeus on Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:22 pm

I took a while to mark the areas that are currently existing or are in development. Our map should *roughly* correspond with what we have. (And yes, I know I suck at something like this ;)). My lines do not correspond to 100% with MUME but I guess it is close enough. It just should not be off by some 100 or 200 miles or so. ;)

[The extension jpg has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Erondil on Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:20 pm

I know that the lighted part is not 100% conform with MUME, how I worte earlier I tried to find some compromise and a other reason was aesthetic reasons.

I will try to explain it:

1.) Blue Mountains
When a player go to BM from Harlond, he/she has cross a river two times and some rooms NE of BM-gate there is a
river. Where are the rivers in the south? A other point that the area NW from Forlong, between Forlond and the
first river is called "Ered Luin", the Blue Mountains are north of the first river. So the compromis was to move the
Blue Mountains a little south and so explain the river crossing too, and on the most maps the two inflows of the
Lhun are not named.

2.) That I did not shad in some cases the half of woods like Old Forest, Trollshaws, Lorien, Fangorn, Mirkwood has
aesthetic reasons and a other reason was it was easier for me to write the text and shade it. To shade the Misty
Mountains I saw no need and there was also a aesthetic reason, who think real that he/she can cross everywhere the
Misty Mountains.

3.) Noc-area
There I keeped the river in mind when someone go from Rivendell to Noc, the river is most times north, therefor I
position Noc some north, and a exact location is not 100% where the name is written, most times a little aside.
That the Noc and Mirkwood area get so hugh was a aesthetic reason, but to change it is not a problem, just shade
more areas.

4.) Mirkwood
Why I enlighten the Mirkwood area so much, the main reason can be found under point two, to change it is not a big
problem. If we go some south we will see that the Gladden Fields in MUME are not conform with the Gladden Fields
on the original middle earth map. Therefore I enlighten the whole area south of Vale and try to connect tha shaded
areas without gaining sharp edges (a aesthetic reason).

To shade some areas is not a problem, but I think we should think about some compromise. For example if we position the BM so much south or the Gladden Fields so much north-west which don't get on a huge scale conform with the original map, it is not the middle earth which everyone knows. I hope I could make it clear what I try to say :?: :?: :?: .

I'm sure some areas will be shaded, but if I have to do it, it will be nice if someone tell me exatly which areas, so that I have not to do it several times ;) .
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Timodeus on Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:29 am

I just point the shading out since the idea of the map was that players should be able to roughly know where they are. If there is a mismatch between "map" and "realitiy" this aim cannot be reached.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Erondil on Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:47 pm

I'm aware that a 100% confomance between map and MUME reality can't be achieve, therefore I try to strike a blance between map and reality. I try here and in my previos post to explain my motive why I shade it how I did it, aside from Mirkwood I think for a first-try it was not so bad, special the BM, there I deviated a little form the map and the MUME reality, but as result the river crossing and the position of the BM-gate make sense and the map (position on the map) get cursory conform with the MUME reality. The base idea of the map section is to help and to embolden new players, to give them a little help on their adventure (detail-map) and give them a feeling how MUME fits in the Tolkein world.

This map-version is only a base version, I know I have to make some change, therefore I asked for suggestion and critique. If we talk special about the shade part, at the end it's a decission of the management or whoever will run the website which part will be lighten and which shade and how much diverge from the map or from the MUME reality. I have no problem to shade this or that, but what I wish is to know exactly what I have to shade, because everyone of us has his/her own vision and the views are subjective. When everyone agree (who have to agree) what should be done and I get an exact order, I hope that everyone at the end, the management and the players, will be satisfied.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Mandor on Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:43 am

Im also working on a map spanning all of arda with all built zones superimposed. Im suprised how well they fit. The only problem is that many maps arent proportional long/lat, and many curve the misties oddly.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Freyja on Mon Apr 21, 2008 9:55 am

Erondil: The line-art (black and white lines) of your map are quite like http://files.meetup.com/238907/middle%20earth%20map%20wallpaper.jpg the "original maps" have. Did you draw it like that, because you wanted to or just copy pasted? :D I would like to see some original artwork, the hand and style of an artist - the maps would be much more personalized. I hope you get my point and I didn't misunderstood something.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Freyja on Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:18 am

I created less anti-aliased favicon file for the webpage :
Download: http://mume.freyja.pri.ee/mumefavicon.ico
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Erondil on Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:04 pm

I used as example maps of my books and compare it with maps in the web, there the maps looks more or less the same.

I had several ideas how to make it, for exampel make it transparent or with some 3D effect, but at the end there was a decision it should look old, black and with were to easy and common so I decide to draw it in colour and keep it basic ans conform with the original map, some parts (styles) of othermaps which I like I include. The result is it don't look individual, therefore I try to inform me about copyright, a other sulution was to draw a new map which schematic conform with the original map.

But all in all when drawing middle earth you are artistically limited because Middle-earth looks how it look, the mountains, cities, rivers, known woods are where they are, therfore is only space for small artistically changes and novelties. Maybe I'm wrong with this opinion, how I said views are subjective therefor I asked for critique and suggestions.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Freyja on Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:30 pm

Hey :) Data (facts, like forest and rivers and their locations) and design styles (drawing styles) are different subjects ;)
There are thousands of ways how to make a map and what style to choose for the same data. I personally don't like that you have used already existing one. Coloring is nice and no critics there.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Erondil on Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:13 pm

How I said before, I try to get confom as posible with the original, to make sure there is a maximal recognition. Of course I would do things a little different if I choose the transparent version,..., maybe at the beginn when we were talking about the map some basic conditions were helpful to know what is expected, but to make it short I choose this style (version) because I thought it will fits. I can't deny that I have a deficit on artistic creativity and not much experiance in this cases because in my RL I do completely different things as to draw maps, this is not an excuse, the reality is I try to draw a map it doesn't suit, not more and not less.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Ortansia on Mon Apr 21, 2008 5:24 pm

I disagree Freyja :p most of maps about mume I have seen are not drawn by hand :p and the one done by Erondil is original since he draw it by himself
The original mume map you posted is very hard to read or even to get a quick over look of Arda :p . It is not very well illustrated as the one of erondil

I agree that erondil arda map needs to be polished :p as I said before I didn't like the blurry background :p and also some area names are hard to read but in a whole it is very nice :) . Concerning the city maps , It is great :p maybe if he can add some symbols for fountain , armourer , rent place ... ect it will look even better me think :p
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Erondil on Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:39 pm

How I said before views are subjective, I understand Freyja and from her viewpoint she has right. Independent what was my aim or why I draw it how I did or did I have other ideas how it could be done, if we see it realistic there is nothing special about the map, it is similar to hundred of other maps in the web. Of course I could made it more unique if I has not used existing stuff, but I did it because my aim was maximum of recognition and go conform with the original als posible. To start now a debate will the map be used or not or how nice it is, is not my aim and the solution for this project.
My aim was to get some response what people like and what should be changed, and the first what I have to change is the readability. At the end my map is just one possibility, maybe Mandor or someone els come up with a map where we all are enthused and say this one is the right one. So I think we should sit back, bring together stuff which we need or can use for the new website and at the end we or management or whoever can decide what will be used and what not.

Of course I will keep working on the citymaps and I get some nice stuff from Ortansia, which will make some worke easier, thanks :D
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Erondil on Fri May 16, 2008 11:22 pm

Because no one is posting here news, I will even if they are not so interesting.

To time in RL I'm very busy, but I still search for adequate cliparts and try to draw some.

How are the things progress with the website and the new Map?
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby vingk on Tue May 20, 2008 5:55 pm

I'd really like an easy link to vote for MUME on the big MUD listings sites, or if it's already there, then please make it more accessible. Going to the mudconnector web page and having to manually navigate through the voting stuff is obnoxious.
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Re: Redesigning MUME.org web page

Postby Mandor on Tue May 20, 2008 9:06 pm

It's at the bottom of http://mume.org/ if you scroll down.
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