Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
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Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
MUME roleplaying has fallen away over the years (not that there was that much anyhow), and I feel that changes to encourage roleplaying would enhance the experience of the game and act as more of a hook for new players. A lot of the top muds a primarily RP games, and I think MUME may be losing players to these games. This got me thinking about what changes would be required to alter MUME a little to encourage more roleplaying (and tolkien style roleplaying at that). I have listed a couple of ideas below, and would interested in what others think.
Main problem that prevents roleplaying is the character advancement method. In tolkien, heroes where heroes - Nain leaps up the steps to challenge Azog, Gandalf single handedly delays the Balrog and a thousand other examples of tolkien heroes (and often villains too) acting in a courageous manner. This rarely happens in MUME due to the penalties for death and the lack of encouragement to act bravely. Imagine Tolkien's books if the heroes (and villains) behaved like they do in MUME? 'Aragorn, seeing the wounded Orc warrior limp into a cave to escape the sunlight, sits at the entrance and waits for hours until enough of his friends arrive for him to feel safe before finishing it.' Hardly heroic stuff. Tolkien was all about heroic against the odds actions and MUME not only fails to encourage this behaviour, but can sometimes threaten to accuse you of cheating if you engage in heroic actions! Remember the speech given by Theoden when he tells his men that they are not enough to defeat Mordor, but that they will enter battle nontheless? Heroic stuff - but potential demotion territory in MUME. To get around this, remove (or at least severly cut) the experience loss in PK for the higher levels. Maybe cap a Pk death at a maximum loss of 100k or so? Would encourage higher level characters to 'get stuck in' a little more - it has always seemed a shame to me that some of the games higher level characters (and best players) find it difficult to contribute due to the penalties they may suffer if they rip, and behave like pathetic wimps because of it. Famous MUME wimps like Kaldae etc... may be more willing to engage in some fun heroic stuff if they had less to lose.
Other ideas would be to encourage exploration by removing all instant DT's. They are just a pain in the ass and add nothing to the fun of the game, and can prevent players exploring new regions. If someone can think of something positive that instant DT's add then please tell me, because I can't think of any.
Bring Pk xp into line with normal xp. IE if you kill a 100k legend solo you get 100k. If you kill it in a group of 3 you get 33k etc.... Would again encourage heroic action (which is in the spirit of tolkien) without messing up gameplay.
Remove the narrate channel, emotes and tells to players in different rooms so that players can only communicate through yells, says etc... Would create a more tolkien feel and languages would actually be valued a bit. I remember an April fool where the narrate channel was removed - was a great change!!!
Stop penalising people for arranging fights (and no I haven't done it!) in game. If an elf shouts at an orc a taunt to come and fight him, whats wrong with that? Happens all the time in tolkien - champions challenging each other. I totally fail to see the problem people have with this. As a player base (and management) we need to understand that whilst yes the sides are at war, it is a tolkien war - and in a tolkien war these things happen!
Would be interested to hear what others think about this. Please just dont post Mume is dead, nobody will do anything etc.... This I know already so dont need telling - I am interested in the opinions of other mumers.
Main problem that prevents roleplaying is the character advancement method. In tolkien, heroes where heroes - Nain leaps up the steps to challenge Azog, Gandalf single handedly delays the Balrog and a thousand other examples of tolkien heroes (and often villains too) acting in a courageous manner. This rarely happens in MUME due to the penalties for death and the lack of encouragement to act bravely. Imagine Tolkien's books if the heroes (and villains) behaved like they do in MUME? 'Aragorn, seeing the wounded Orc warrior limp into a cave to escape the sunlight, sits at the entrance and waits for hours until enough of his friends arrive for him to feel safe before finishing it.' Hardly heroic stuff. Tolkien was all about heroic against the odds actions and MUME not only fails to encourage this behaviour, but can sometimes threaten to accuse you of cheating if you engage in heroic actions! Remember the speech given by Theoden when he tells his men that they are not enough to defeat Mordor, but that they will enter battle nontheless? Heroic stuff - but potential demotion territory in MUME. To get around this, remove (or at least severly cut) the experience loss in PK for the higher levels. Maybe cap a Pk death at a maximum loss of 100k or so? Would encourage higher level characters to 'get stuck in' a little more - it has always seemed a shame to me that some of the games higher level characters (and best players) find it difficult to contribute due to the penalties they may suffer if they rip, and behave like pathetic wimps because of it. Famous MUME wimps like Kaldae etc... may be more willing to engage in some fun heroic stuff if they had less to lose.
Other ideas would be to encourage exploration by removing all instant DT's. They are just a pain in the ass and add nothing to the fun of the game, and can prevent players exploring new regions. If someone can think of something positive that instant DT's add then please tell me, because I can't think of any.
Bring Pk xp into line with normal xp. IE if you kill a 100k legend solo you get 100k. If you kill it in a group of 3 you get 33k etc.... Would again encourage heroic action (which is in the spirit of tolkien) without messing up gameplay.
Remove the narrate channel, emotes and tells to players in different rooms so that players can only communicate through yells, says etc... Would create a more tolkien feel and languages would actually be valued a bit. I remember an April fool where the narrate channel was removed - was a great change!!!
Stop penalising people for arranging fights (and no I haven't done it!) in game. If an elf shouts at an orc a taunt to come and fight him, whats wrong with that? Happens all the time in tolkien - champions challenging each other. I totally fail to see the problem people have with this. As a player base (and management) we need to understand that whilst yes the sides are at war, it is a tolkien war - and in a tolkien war these things happen!
Would be interested to hear what others think about this. Please just dont post Mume is dead, nobody will do anything etc.... This I know already so dont need telling - I am interested in the opinions of other mumers.
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
I'm a huge proponent of reducing xp-loss on all forms of death to bring it more in line with other modern MMORPGs. I feel that the chance of eq-loss (looting, corpse decay) and the run back are more than adequate humiliations for anyone who has spent hours leveling a character.
Mume has gotten away in the past with not caring for its community (i.e. harsh mob deaths, age loss) but in this day and age we need to preserve community. Some people fear that Mume is unique because of this; but obviously Mume wouldn't be any worse if you didn't lose a level from a mobdeath (only newbies usually mobdie). Anyway, I feel Mume has always catered to the roleplayer. The problem never was roleplaying; it was how it punished players for screwing up.
As for removing all DTs, I feel that DTs are necessary in some of the more dangerous locations of Mume (Moria for example) but in some sections (such as Redhorn) it is absurd how many there are for a highly traveled route. Oh, and leave narrates as it is. If a roleplayer doesn't want it they can type "listen tales". And finally, for huge-group xp... I don't see any reason as to change the current system. Grouping is good. Mume is a multiplayer game!
Mume has gotten away in the past with not caring for its community (i.e. harsh mob deaths, age loss) but in this day and age we need to preserve community. Some people fear that Mume is unique because of this; but obviously Mume wouldn't be any worse if you didn't lose a level from a mobdeath (only newbies usually mobdie). Anyway, I feel Mume has always catered to the roleplayer. The problem never was roleplaying; it was how it punished players for screwing up.
As for removing all DTs, I feel that DTs are necessary in some of the more dangerous locations of Mume (Moria for example) but in some sections (such as Redhorn) it is absurd how many there are for a highly traveled route. Oh, and leave narrates as it is. If a roleplayer doesn't want it they can type "listen tales". And finally, for huge-group xp... I don't see any reason as to change the current system. Grouping is good. Mume is a multiplayer game!
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
The negative first;
Enhancing the game/Improving the possibility for roleplay/Increasing the atmosphere
These things should be accomplished by adding to the game. Not by removing (for example) communicating channels. Many players like and depend on these things for their playing.
On the topic of for example arranged duels;
The more grey areas, the easier cheating becomes. If people are allowed to duel, they will expect to be allowed to sit in the same room discussing the rules of these duels. If they are allowed to sit in the same room to discuss the rules of a duel, they will also sit in the same room and chat. When people from different sides sit in the same room and chat --- well you get the point.
People do cheat, and clearly defined rules are needed. If legolas and some orc captain meet, they can have their heroic fight, just attack eachother... They don't shake hands first and agree to go into a closed room where legolas allows the orc to pick the door so none of them can leave the fight.
Now let's think positive
Many things could be done to improve upon the atmosphere of the game and for allowing more roleplay. I'll just toss a few in here that comes to mind.
More quests, both high and low level. This is already happening, which is great! More!
Maybe more NPC's to interact with, that answers questions etc. Maybe an old retired ranger in bree that you can ask about bears, boars and bandits and he'll tell you of his encounters with these. Other things along these lines. Bring the world to life!
More variation in fighting NPC's. Give them more abilities/features to use. Let the gear humanoids use improve them, so that when a mob loads with a better weapon, it does more damage. Alot more could be done here but I don't have any specifics in mind at the moment
Death Traps
I've always disliked the death-flagged rooms. You enter, you die, your eq is lost. The type of rooms where you fall and take alot of damage, and it leaves a corpse etc, such things is ok. But death-flags? Meh.
However, there is a need to purge eq from the game. If gear isn't removed, it leads to inflation. There are other ways to remove gear from the game though, there could be more quests involving giving away gear/improving gear but making it good/evil aligned so when you die with it, the other side destroys it.
I'll stop there, before I write a whole novel!
One last thing though, I do not think playerkilling needs to reward more experience points than it does today. A lack of high level characters is definately not one of mume's problems.
Edit: Maybe I missunderstood your line about pk-xp and you meant reduce it for killing things in groups.
Enhancing the game/Improving the possibility for roleplay/Increasing the atmosphere
These things should be accomplished by adding to the game. Not by removing (for example) communicating channels. Many players like and depend on these things for their playing.
On the topic of for example arranged duels;
The more grey areas, the easier cheating becomes. If people are allowed to duel, they will expect to be allowed to sit in the same room discussing the rules of these duels. If they are allowed to sit in the same room to discuss the rules of a duel, they will also sit in the same room and chat. When people from different sides sit in the same room and chat --- well you get the point.
People do cheat, and clearly defined rules are needed. If legolas and some orc captain meet, they can have their heroic fight, just attack eachother... They don't shake hands first and agree to go into a closed room where legolas allows the orc to pick the door so none of them can leave the fight.
Now let's think positive
Many things could be done to improve upon the atmosphere of the game and for allowing more roleplay. I'll just toss a few in here that comes to mind.
More quests, both high and low level. This is already happening, which is great! More!
Maybe more NPC's to interact with, that answers questions etc. Maybe an old retired ranger in bree that you can ask about bears, boars and bandits and he'll tell you of his encounters with these. Other things along these lines. Bring the world to life!
More variation in fighting NPC's. Give them more abilities/features to use. Let the gear humanoids use improve them, so that when a mob loads with a better weapon, it does more damage. Alot more could be done here but I don't have any specifics in mind at the moment
Death Traps
I've always disliked the death-flagged rooms. You enter, you die, your eq is lost. The type of rooms where you fall and take alot of damage, and it leaves a corpse etc, such things is ok. But death-flags? Meh.
However, there is a need to purge eq from the game. If gear isn't removed, it leads to inflation. There are other ways to remove gear from the game though, there could be more quests involving giving away gear/improving gear but making it good/evil aligned so when you die with it, the other side destroys it.
I'll stop there, before I write a whole novel!
One last thing though, I do not think playerkilling needs to reward more experience points than it does today. A lack of high level characters is definately not one of mume's problems.
Edit: Maybe I missunderstood your line about pk-xp and you meant reduce it for killing things in groups.
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
Quoting my ER post in a thread with identical OP:
1. The communication channels are necessary for player interaction, except for people who play from locations that allow offline communications or have prior knowledge of eachother and communicate via an online instant messaging system. Removing them would
a) make it near impossible for new players to do anything but hang around in Bree or GH and ask everyone who passes by for help, lest they get eternally stuck somewhere without any means of asking for help
b) make out-of-game communications the most important PK factor.
2. The xp/level system does indeed hamper RP, enough so in itself to make any serious attempt at RPing futile.
3. The static world is also enough in itself to make any serious attempt at RPing futile.
4. No character can be geared towards anything but combat; one cannot be a farmer, craftsman, teacher, prospector, nor anything else civilian. This is obviously related to 3.
1. The communication channels are necessary for player interaction, except for people who play from locations that allow offline communications or have prior knowledge of eachother and communicate via an online instant messaging system. Removing them would
a) make it near impossible for new players to do anything but hang around in Bree or GH and ask everyone who passes by for help, lest they get eternally stuck somewhere without any means of asking for help
b) make out-of-game communications the most important PK factor.
2. The xp/level system does indeed hamper RP, enough so in itself to make any serious attempt at RPing futile.
3. The static world is also enough in itself to make any serious attempt at RPing futile.
4. No character can be geared towards anything but combat; one cannot be a farmer, craftsman, teacher, prospector, nor anything else civilian. This is obviously related to 3.
Politicians are wise and benevolent and will gladly sacrifice themselves for the common good. Anyone who implies that there might exist dishonest politicians is obviously a terrorist who should be locked up indefinitely without a trial.
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
This is neither here nor there, but out of curiousity: Do you still play Rogon? You seem to care a lot about the game and the ways in which it needs improvement. NB that this is not meant in any offensive way.
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
As far as I know some of the old instant DTs have been removed lately (I know at least in the GH area some two or three or so that have vanished; no clue about other DTs, I did not actually test them when I found the room's connection was still alive (as the most western one on Redhorn) ).
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
That sounds good. Hopefully they will all be removed. The flagged rooms atleast. Timed things, falls for damage etc are all fine and well!Timodeus wrote:As far as I know some of the old instant DTs have been removed lately (I know at least in the GH area some two or three or so that have vanished; no clue about other DTs, I did not actually test them when I found the room's connection was still alive (as the most western one on Redhorn) ).
How's the eq-status on players in general? Is more ways to remove eq from the game needed or is there a balance?
Breaux: I play some, although not quite as actively as before. Didn't play for some time either (3-4 years) so I don't know where anything is anymore Let's not discuss that further in this thread though, let's keep it on topic.
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
Hm, I know this may be an unpopular opinion, but I am more interested in the people playing than their characters. MUMErs are an interesting bunch. Maybe I just wish people had more of a sense of humor and weren't so stuck up when you throw in some RL reference or anything. I do enjoy creating a character and RPing but I think staying grounded in the real world is the only way I can handle playing MUME as much as I do. How are you supposed to role-play after XPing for several hours? It gets tiring... It is just a game and people tend to forget that. If everyone did more RPing I think MUME would be full of more whiners and complainers than it already is.
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
See, thats the thing, if most people are roleplaying, then you will have your whiners, your brave, your wimpy, your samesiders. There are Certain rules in mume that stop you from truelly roleplaying. Such as, as we all know ORCS hate all of the Good side. there is even a quote in the book where Sam says that if orcs saw us they would drop their fight between each other and come after us. *near the end of the book btw* But if me and a zorc are fighting and a hobbit or dwarf shows up and we say lets whack puke first, and me and the zaug kill puke - its against the rules due to the Crossrace etc. etc.
IDK thats just what i think guys.
Also i think that if or when Roleplaying starts, Clans will be formed, I absolutely love the Black Shadow Clan..they roleplay and i love it. Even though im not even good enough to be in the BSC, its fun to watch those little Bns go!
IDK thats just what i think guys.
Also i think that if or when Roleplaying starts, Clans will be formed, I absolutely love the Black Shadow Clan..they roleplay and i love it. Even though im not even good enough to be in the BSC, its fun to watch those little Bns go!
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
As for the roleplaying part I agree with Parrafin
However I believe the game would be very interesting if we removed narrates and tells. To prevent the effect that we would all feel very isolated one could have certain rooms were narrate and tell would work. But that would only be possible in these specific rooms. Never ever in pk. That would be great!
However I believe the game would be very interesting if we removed narrates and tells. To prevent the effect that we would all feel very isolated one could have certain rooms were narrate and tell would work. But that would only be possible in these specific rooms. Never ever in pk. That would be great!
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
... for everyone pking in a labgroup or using external means of communication.Adverse wrote:Never ever in pk. That would be great!
Politicians are wise and benevolent and will gladly sacrifice themselves for the common good. Anyone who implies that there might exist dishonest politicians is obviously a terrorist who should be locked up indefinitely without a trial.
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
With that attitude everyone should have the same link also...
I'm simply saying that in my opinion pk and all of mume would be even more fun if it was made more "realistic" from this point of view. I'm still for tell- and narrate-rooms and nonarrate general game.
I'm simply saying that in my opinion pk and all of mume would be even more fun if it was made more "realistic" from this point of view. I'm still for tell- and narrate-rooms and nonarrate general game.
Re: Roleplaying within MUME - Remember to roleplay?
I think we should keep roleplaying to says.
Narrate for me is a general chat, sometimes I log on just to have fun and talk to other people either via narrate or tells. Personally, if the MUD had enforced roleplay in this fashion, it would make everything go a lot slower. I mean, I would have to spell shit right and use proper punctuation. It would take 20 years to get to Rivendell because we would be stopping and talking about the Michael Jacksonesque-Lonely giant who gave your groupmate the lore to make their bannocks!
Occasional roleplaying for me means that when I get a fantastic kill, I sit in the warm fire at brolg and tell my battle stories to the trolls, who all stamp their feet and make squelching noises when I mention hobbits. When someone takes the initiative to roleplay on their own, I for one do not pass up the chance for a bit of fun till the sun goes down, and off we go to pk again.
I also believe that out of all the races, trolls are definetly the best roleplayers. Heck- talk to Naga for long enough and you'll get your fill of squishy Hobbit -stories to last you a lifetime. BNs are also enjoyable to roleplay with sometimes, you just have to make an effort!
Narrate for me is a general chat, sometimes I log on just to have fun and talk to other people either via narrate or tells. Personally, if the MUD had enforced roleplay in this fashion, it would make everything go a lot slower. I mean, I would have to spell shit right and use proper punctuation. It would take 20 years to get to Rivendell because we would be stopping and talking about the Michael Jacksonesque-Lonely giant who gave your groupmate the lore to make their bannocks!
Occasional roleplaying for me means that when I get a fantastic kill, I sit in the warm fire at brolg and tell my battle stories to the trolls, who all stamp their feet and make squelching noises when I mention hobbits. When someone takes the initiative to roleplay on their own, I for one do not pass up the chance for a bit of fun till the sun goes down, and off we go to pk again.
I also believe that out of all the races, trolls are definetly the best roleplayers. Heck- talk to Naga for long enough and you'll get your fill of squishy Hobbit -stories to last you a lifetime. BNs are also enjoyable to roleplay with sometimes, you just have to make an effort!
Formerly a dastardly pirate of the Western Sea, he now contents
himself with rowing around the Greyflood of Tharbad in a canoe.
Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Over 1000 whities have been sent to Davey Jones' Locker.
himself with rowing around the Greyflood of Tharbad in a canoe.
Oh how the mighty have fallen.
Over 1000 whities have been sent to Davey Jones' Locker.