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Why does train improve not practice %s?

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:49 pm
by science
I realize this is as it was designed, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like a huge bug.

The design of train improve was a brilliant idea to replace rerolls. Brilliant! Especially better than waiting a full year RL to tweak a legends stats, which is just crazy. The fact that Mume can even expect that a player would be here a full year later is a statement to how insane of a player base we are..

The only benefit to the fact that train improve int, for example, doesn't affect your spell %s, is:
1) It makes it confusing as hell
2) It ruins the idea of replacing rerolls with train improve, since it only affects *some* things.
3) It lets people with complex inner knowledge of the system make their overpowered characters even more overpowered.
4) It leads to many more narrates about "should I have a 12 in dex, then train it up to 16?" And I know in the past, aratar have tried to reduce chatter about specific game number things.

If it hadn't been specifically commented on that this is how it is supposed to work, this is the kind of thing I'd expect people get spam-demoted 40 levels by staer for.

A suggestion if the coding gets difficult is to only have it check for stat -> skill updates when you login or something.

Can we please have train improve finished, so that it really does work like a reroll does?

Thanks!
-Science

Re: Why does train improve not practice %s?

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:52 pm
by dianos
I agree 100%.

Re: Why does train improve not practice %s?

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:20 pm
by Elestir
While presenting this change as something to replace limited rerolls was completely misleading, the current train feature has its advantages as well. E.g. it extends the possibilities to customize the character, bringing more variety into the game. Generally it also makes many character setups more powerful, yes.

Changing this feature in a proposed way would however ruin many characters made after this change, so full rerolls should be given if that happens.

Re: Why does train improve not practice %s?

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:26 pm
by AndrĂ³g
I agree with Elestir. While Science does have a point - this change makes choosing statistics very complicated, probably only a tiny fragment of the whole playerbase properly comprehends how the system works now - then Elestir's point is even more significant: this CANNOT be changed without giving people full rerolls. There are a LOT of characters out there that have been statted in a way that uses the new system. Going back to the old one wouldn't necessarily make them useless, but it'd certainly cripple them badly.

Re: Why does train improve not practice %s?

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:47 am
by dianos
But on the other hand, there are a stack of characters around which were created before this train business was introduced (for example, most of my characters). Furthermore, I'd guess that many characters created after this feature was implemented still were not designed to take advantage of it - because many people do not understand how it is meant to work (it is not intuitive) and some few people, ie. me, never bothered to design characters around train because they assume it will be changed soon... when it was introduced it was pitched as a work-in-progress feature, if I remember correctly.

Although train does offer more options for tweaking characters I don't feel that it actually brings much variety. Usually when characters are designed to make use of train they just end up being a little bit more powerful (as opposed to being 'different').

My main problem with the current implementation of train is that it is unintuitive.

Re: Why does train improve not practice %s?

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:54 pm
by shibeka
I am hopelessly in the dark about MUME. The only consistent thing I know is to get a Forest Green Cloak. I have a post re-roll 17 wil and am hoping that train improvement will fix that 'blind' spell more reliably. I don't think this is right but am doing it anyway in the hope there is a dynamic component too. It is ok to laugh. MUME is an exploration to me.

Re: Why does train improve not practice %s?

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:51 pm
by ridire
shibeka wrote:MUME is an exploration to me.
Just as it should be! With that attitude, you are guaranteed months^Wyears^Wdecades of fun.

Re: Why does train improve not practice %s?

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:45 am
by Elestir
shibeka wrote:I have a post re-roll 17 wil and am hoping that train improvement will fix that 'blind' spell more reliably.
Level is much more important than will-power for blinding, Shibeka. Besides nobody from the management ever confirmed (at least not publicly) that current will-power affects spellpower of spells like blindness, etc. With 17 base WIL, you don't really need to improve it. Better improve stats, that are very low, so you get significant increase on them. Generally, casters should have low base physical stats, like STR CON DEX, so these are the best candidates for training.

Re: Why does train improve not practice %s?

Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:09 pm
by shibeka
Ever since a peer cleric had like 20% better fixes after we XPed together some hours, I have wanted high will. OK I wont bury dex. TY I suppose