The term 'Darkie'

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Caldan
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 11:48 pm

The term 'Darkie'

Post by Caldan »

I was doing my usual board-reader thing when I happened across this post, which I think is appropriate to duplicate here:

Message 24039 : Room 357 [3:57] - racist remarks ()
Written on Sat Jan 10 09:43:42 2009

I'm quite sick and tired of players using the word "nigger' on this mud.
They hide behind the notion that they're either joking, or using it b/c *they* are black and have some legitimate right to use the word.
Now I'm hearing that *darkies*--a Mume word--really means*nigger* and I seriously doubt that any Mume implementor meant it in that manner.
I would like a clarification from some Ainur: does *darkie* mean the equivalent of *nigger*?
I'd like to see this is a forum reference so that all of us are clear on the intent of the use of *darkie*
Thaks for your consideration.

I mailed this player back, and I will post that mail here as well:

Mail 2 : RE: Racism @ (Caldan)
Written on Sat Jan 10 23:41:00 2009

Hello,

I saw your post on the idea board about use of the word 'darkie', and
figured I'd give my input. Please note that I AM NOT speaking as an
official representative of MUME's management. My comments here are
said as a player.

The term 'darkie' can be used as a racially derogative term, similar in
meaning to the 'n-word'. This fact has nothing to do with MUME - it is
a separate fact pertinent to this discussion.

The term 'darkie' used in MUME is an abbreviation for characters on
the evil (or 'dark') side of the war. These are Orcs, Trolls, and Black
Numenoreans. The exact origin of this abbreviation is to me unknown,
but I suspect it came about it one of two ways (either: "What is a
character on the dark side of the war? A 'dark'-'ie'." or "If a
character on the white side of the war is a 'whitie', then a character
on the dark side of the war is a 'darkie'.") and influenced by another
factor (with three separate races on the dark side of the war, that
frequently inter-mingle in the game, a simple term was needed to refer
to groups of mixed types, i.e. Orcs and Trolls together). Note that
this speculation on the origin of the abbreviation is just that,
speculation.

However, while I can only provide speculation on the ORIGIN of the term
'darkie', I can provide a fairly confident assessment of the USE of the
term in the game: it is used as a conveniently short 'umbrella' term,
under which all the varied races of the dark side of the war fall.

And nothing else.

I will agree that it is a (very) unfortunate fact that the term 'darkie'
can also be used as a racially derogative term. In fact, that is the reason
that I personally no longer use it. I resort to (longer) terms that describe
the same thing without any racist overtones (at least, I hope). However,
while I choose not to use it, I am not bothered by its use by others, as
I am of the understanding that it is not used in a racially derogative
sense.

Now, that being said, the 'n-word' has NO such grey-area, and is not a term
you should ever be seen used in this game. If you encounter a player using
it, on ANY channel of communication, please report it to an immortal, either
via the 'tell' command (if any appropriate immortals are visible), the
'pray' command, or, failing either of those, to an Aratar via game-mail
(I would suggest either Dain or Nienor).

To recap: the term 'darkie' CAN be used as a racially offensive term, but
to say that it IS used this way in the game purely on that basis has no
justification that I am aware of. It is more likely that its usage in-game
is a coincidence.

Caldan

I have edited out the name of the player who wrote the original post. Any comments?
dianos
Posts: 67
Joined: Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:47 pm

Re: The term 'Darkie'

Post by dianos »

Your response sounds about right.

To be honest, I've never in my life heard "darkie" used in a racially derogative manner. In the context of MUME I think it is quite clear that "darkie" refers to nothing other than a character on the 'evil' side of the war and I'm content to continue using the term to mean just that.
Andróg
Posts: 204
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:10 pm

Re: The term 'Darkie'

Post by Andróg »

I read that post on the Idea board as well. I was surprised. I've never heard or seen anyone use it as a racist remark either. I suspect the player in question simply confused something. Besides, "puke" is far more insulting than "darkie"! Especially when used by whities when talking about other whities.
Timodeus
Arata
Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Germany

Re: The term 'Darkie'

Post by Timodeus »

I wrote a rather long answer but when I wanted to send it... it also vanished in the server-issue we had.

Short summary:
a) "darkie" refers to "dark and evil races" in J.R.R. Tolkiens Midlle-Earth. It has no relation to real-life. Also, Tolkien could DEFINE what is evil and bad and "dark" in his world.

b) Our rules on racism (be it with words that "directly" mean racism and abuse or "indirectly" does not matter) are rather clear. (And also on harassing players for any other RL-feature (as gender, race, weight, nationality, ...)).

c) I have never seen the issue mentioned by the poster.

If someone should feel offended, complain to any Ms+. The punishments for the offender range from warnings and noshouts over time spend in Morgul Vale to demotions and *massive* demotions (as outlined in RULES COMMUNICATION) for repeated/extremely bad cases.
azaseth
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:32 pm

Re: The term 'Darkie'

Post by azaseth »

I gotta say, im white. and when i see orcs using the word WHITIES i feel offended by it!

no, not really. Do you think black people get offended when you say darkies are coming?
i doubt it, they rather think orcs are coming, as everyone else, but you :ugeek:
Last edited by Timodeus on Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Political correctness may be overrated, but will not address black people with the term you did, even when you "scrambled" it somewhat!
Belamir
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: The term 'Darkie'

Post by Belamir »

That's hardly a comparison worth mentioning.
ZonamA
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:42 am

Re: The term 'Darkie'

Post by ZonamA »

Alright. This is my first day, and som1 said, Hey any darkies here? in Fornost.
Why anyone would want to use darkie instead of 'nigger' to represent a person with dark skin, I have no idea.
Heck, there is no difference between a 'White' person and a 'black' person except color of skin.
I'd like to ask the people who refer to 'black' people like that (whether they are 'black' or not) to SHUT UR PIEHOLE AND STOP PROVOKING CERTAIN PEOPLE
However, using darkie otherwise(As a MUME term) is just fine :D
ZonamA

P.S. ( Note for the programmers)
Ever thought of taking Java to a whole new level.....
Like 3D?
If you do not have that level of skill yet thats fine.
but I think that it would be really cool to have a middle earth we can literally WALK on.
It'd be awesome.... :mrgreen:
Elestir
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:47 pm
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: The term 'Darkie'

Post by Elestir »

ZonamA wrote:Alright. This is my first day, and som1 said, Hey any darkies here? in Fornost.
Why anyone would want to use darkie instead of 'nigger' to represent a person with dark skin, I have no idea.
I've never witnessed anyone using term "darkie" for other meaning than that of the ingame races (orcs/trolls/bns).
ZonamA wrote:Heck, there is no difference between a 'White' person and a 'black' person except color of skin.
In fact, there are many differences. Pretending to not see them just to not be seen as a racist is rather silly. Being blind to them often leads to positive racism. What is dangerous is not the awareness of those differences, but mis-behavior based on this awareness.
Timodeus
Arata
Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:20 am
Location: Germany

Re: The term 'Darkie'

Post by Timodeus »

Watch. ;)
And apart from that I never heard/saw "darkie" on MUME being used for anything but ingame races. And trolls probably don't even have "black" skin...

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/102800
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