Test-mume feedback on scout changes

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Azazello
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Azazello »

Yes, hiding is still an unsolved problem.
Razoor
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:20 am

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Razoor »

I'm against adding any kind of delay to sneak because it doesn't promote the fighting thieves.

I think any change in thieves should be focused on giving them benefits when fighting, and maluses while
backstabbing. Perhaps make it so that you can't backstab rather than sneak for X seconds after you flee?
It would make exping a bit more annoying, but thief is already by far the easiest class to XP so that's fine.
Also you can easily use escape while exping on mobs.

I'd like those of you who are pro-delay to answer one thing:

Why should i enter a closeable and fight with my thief if i get a malus while doing it (lots of fleeing, no sneak, delay)
rather than sneaking around backstabbing stuff and run if i fail?

I think we all agree on that backstab sucks most of the time, and that fighting is much more fun for everyone :)
Fankil
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:17 pm
Location: Trondheim, Norway

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Fankil »

You're so unbelievably biased that it's difficult to take you seriously, Razoor.
--

I found the big danger with test-escape the failing ratio. Let's say you use it in a PK situation, and you want to be sure that you actually escape, so you send it three-four times to mume. If you escape on your first attempt you'll already have to hit enter three more times in order to move further, if you only try to escape once and fail, you can get pretty messed up. In both scenarios you'll loose alot of hps.

I did like the speed of escape though, and the idea of not being able to sneak while panic flag is up. In reality, I think it might be a bit too harsh on the scouts... one solution could be to increase the speed of escape even more, and let the panic-sneak-flag last for no more than 10 seconds. Implement an auto-escape similar to flee, so that you proceed until successful, unless you type "escape off". Basically I'm suggesting that you do what you did, but push it even further.

Edit: ..and it the future I might read all of the previous posts, in order not to be redundant. :idea:
Fankil - Servant of Morgoth (Shaper)
leikzum
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:20 am

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by leikzum »

Okay I have some comments after some hours of testing,

First, When you're sneaking and happend to flee and sneak turns off, well when panicflag wears off you should start sneaking by yourself again, as if you're a in a "sneakmode" ready to start sneaking as soon as you stop panic.

Second, The usage of escape instead of flee works pretty well on high level scouts, mainly because they are able to do considerable damage during each round of battle (a backstab), before having to escape or in worst case flee. High level scouts also have usualy have either considerable defence or large amount of hps, sometimes both, making the cost in time to escape instead of flee possible, because the hp loss is still pretty humble. This is where I see the main problem with the sneak/escape change. You as a scout will have to stay longer engaged with your enemy using escape to leave room, because loosing sneak ability due to panic will make the scout incapable of doing any kind of real damage, considering the main source or damage from scouts comes from a combination of sneak/backstab or sneak/missile. Having this said, the changes will make life miserable for low level scouts, who lack the ability to deal great amount of damage on each round, who lack the defence needed to avoid getting hit while trying to escape, and also lack the hps to take the hits not avoided. To consider is also that the backstab skill starts to work proper at around level 15 first, depending on pracs and stats, and even then the damage is roughly equivalent to a shot from an embellished bow.

In conclusion, the changes will not have a proportionate affect on all level thieves in the game. To compensate for the extra time needed to use escape instead of fleeing, thus still being able to sneak, I'd like to see the loss of defence while in the procedure of a backstab/aiming a shot, reduced, making the scout less likely to be harmed by it's enemy during the extra time it takes to leave the room by escaping.
Azazello
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Azazello »

Razoor, have you tried the changes yourself or are you just discussing?

This change makes thieves harder to play in closeables. At the moment, i agree, it makes them too hard, but generally the change is a movement in the right direction.
leikzum
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:20 am

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by leikzum »

Ok I'd like to add one important thing here! Forgot to mention before

I mainly tested on solo mobs, trying to do more than 1-2 mobs at the time and escape will work horrible, like backstabbing filthy cave with new sneak/escape change is impossible, you can't escape vs that many mobs and have to flee. Not even levels defence or hps can save you here. The change would mean that a scout in zones with many mobs (moria, sewers, etc) where you need to move quick and preferably hidden by sneaking, will be closed to imobilized after 1 flee due to failing escape (which you do ALL TIME TIME if many mobs in room). This will kill the scout class!!
Azazello
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Azazello »

Yes, i think escape should not fail at all. or rather fail, but not dependant on amount of enemies. This is a bit harsh.

The main problem is the sneak delay atm. and the habit to hit the flee key :-/
Decoy
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:05 pm

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Decoy »

HIDE is the only thing that should be changed, period.
When tracking an opponent with good track you should be able to find its hidingspot easier.
Jahara
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:55 pm
Location: Indiana, USA
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Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Jahara »

I agree with Razoor that this will make fighting thieves scarce since thief pk consists of:
  1. Not being seen (read: no panic flag) and then backstabbing
  2. Picking your prey into a three room closable and sneak, shoot fleeing them dead before they can kill you.
As of right now the only thing keeping thieves alive in close-ables for shoot/flee is sneak. If you take that away in fights (or make it more absurdly difficult) then we will see more thieves that stay in the open near forests and backstabbing.

The problem with the inability to sneak with the panic flag is that this requires premeditation on the part of the thief. It will not be as easy as typing "escape" and then automatically leaving some random room as is flee making thieves the most difficult class to play period (which they already are in some respects). Therefore simply trying to escape as quickly as possible without dying will be practically impossible. If anyone has ever tried to escape from a pack of hitters inside Warrens or Slag it is suicide as a thief unless you have sneak.

I think there should a twist on this:
  • Make sneak less effective with panic (reduce the total sneak %) because as of right now being paranoid lets you see sneakers and the proposed full visibility is absurd
  • Make the escape skill also a passive skill that replaces flees with escapes at a low percentage (25%, 10% when paniced) thereby making escape not absolutely necessary but still very nice.
voravith
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:21 pm

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by voravith »

Zorcs can't even prac escape, gg.
No-sneak while panicking will increase the population of Ugurz/Snarp-scouts who only stab/run.
Scouts main advantage in combat was their ability to hit-flee while sneaking, now it is impossible.
As panic screwed up stab-exping quite a lot even before the change, i most of always used escape
while exping on crapmobs.
Make stabs land more easily on mobs and more harder on players, right now it is vice versa.
Implement a stab-cap of 300 damage maximum, even with sting. Ypsilon as purethief with sting is kinda badass, even Ugurz with level 87 and brd stabs most bns to incap from full hps/armor. Even without adding envenom, which would normally add 10-30 damage.
If a person plays a character for 5+ years he should deserve a good character, with nice OB, hps, defence and whatnot, but not a wizkill-machine who can just kill anything and walk away.
Jahara
Posts: 228
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:55 pm
Location: Indiana, USA
Contact:

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Jahara »

After some more testing I discovered that:
  • The new escape isn't all that bad for XP. It makes backstab/flee very relaxing.
  • You can still fail escapes with 108% skill. This resulted in me eating a bash. This is a big NO.
  • When paniced thieves will run and hide rather than fight. This doesn't solve the hiding/forest problem.
  • Pk is impossible with escape. The delay is still too long and we will eat bashes/casts. Thieves can't take that punishment.
  • A pure thief does not have enough practices for track and awareness if they have to get escape. Not having awareness on my puke scout drastically lowers my landed backstabs since I need to have my light uncovered.
108% escape:
!O CSW>cr
cover ruby

You dim the light of your ruby.

oO CSW>99 chief
alias 9 backstab chief

Ok.

oO CSW>n
[north]
9
Roughly Cut Cave
A large stone fireplace with a roaring fire warms the room.
A female Ohurk-uai cook is here, planning to prepare the next meal.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
A strong, tall orc-guard is looking for enemies here.
A strong, tall orc-guard is looking for enemies here.
A strong, tall orc-guard is looking for enemies here.
The Ohurk-uai orc chief is here, leading his tribe.
Exits: south, up, down.

!O CSW>backstab chief
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

es
Oops, your victim seems to have sensed a danger!
The Ohurk-uai chief tries to keep you at bay, but fails.
The Ohurk-uai chief swiftly dodges your attempt to pierce him.
The Ohurk-uai chief says 'Yea salr wuan gao awk rat away!'

!O CSW the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>escape south
You seek to escape...

You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.
An orc-guard says 'YOU! Non! Yaa hull bao gonili yeer biva.'
You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.

An Ohurk-uai soldier lightly stabs your left arm and tickles it.

An Ohurk-uai soldier says 'YOI! Mev! Yoe narr peo gefera yeur tume.'
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

You failed to escape the fight!

!O CSW HP:Fine the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>
An Ohurk-uai soldier joins an Ohurk-uai soldier's fight.
An orc-guard joins an orc-guard's fight.
An orc-guard says 'Die scum!'
An orc-guard tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.
An Ohurk-uai soldier tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.

!O CSW HP:Fine the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>
The Ohurk-uai chief stabs your left foot extremely hard.

!O CSW HP:Fine the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>es
escape south
You seek to escape...

An orc-guard strongly stabs your right leg and tickles it.

You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

es
You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.
An orc-guard tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.

You failed to escape the fight!

!O CSW HP:Fine the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>escape south
You seek to escape...

es
You swiftly dodge the Ohurk-uai chief's attempt to stab you.

You failed to escape the fight!

!O CSW HP:Fine the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>escape south
You seek to escape...
An Ohurk-uai soldier tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.

An orc-guard stabs your body and tickles it.

An orc-guard stabs your left foot extremely hard.
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

es
An Ohurk-uai soldier tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.

You failed to escape the fight!
An orc-guard tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.

!O CSW HP:Fine the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>escape south
You seek to escape...
You swiftly dodge the Ohurk-uai chief's attempt to stab you.

es
An Ohurk-uai soldier stabs your head and tickles it.

You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.

You successfully escaped the fight!
It is pitch black...
You are inside.
Exits/emulated: south, up, down.

oO CSW HP:Fine>escape south

You seek to escape...


oO CSW HP:Fine>
Mandor has arrived from the north.

!O CSW HP:Fine>tt and I just failed 4 escapes against 6 mobs
[tell Mandor and I just failed 4 escapes against 6 mobs]
Ok.

!O CSW HP:Fine>tt this is unplayable
[tell Mandor this is unplayable]
Ok.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm>n
[north]
Roughly Cut Cave
A large stone fireplace with a roaring fire warms the room.
A female Ohurk-uai cook is here, planning to prepare the next meal.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
A strong, tall orc-guard is looking for enemies here.
A strong, tall orc-guard is looking for enemies here.
A strong, tall orc-guard is looking for enemies here.
The Ohurk-uai orc chief is here, leading his tribe.
Exits: south, up, down.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm>9
backstab chief
You begin to move silently to the back of your victim...

The Ohurk-uai chief stabs your body hard and tickles it.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>
You try to pierce the Ohurk-uai chief, but he parries successfully.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm the Ohurk-uai chief:Healthy>es
escape south
You seek to escape...
An Ohurk-uai soldier joins an Ohurk-uai soldier's fight.
An orc-guard tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.
An Ohurk-uai soldier tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.

es
You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.

An Ohurk-uai soldier joins an orc-guard's fight.
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

You successfully escaped the fight!
Cluttered Room
A sturdy peg for hanging armour from is on the wall.
A large, dusty alcove sits in a wall, smelling of soot.
A wooden chest stands in the corner.
Mandor the Ainu is standing here.
Exits: north.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm>escape south

You seek to escape...


!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm>cr
cover ruby

Nothing happens.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm>snif
n
[north]
9
You sniff sadly. *SNIFF*

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm>Roughly Cut Cave
A large stone fireplace with a roaring fire warms the room.
A female Ohurk-uai cook is here, planning to prepare the next meal.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
A strong, tall orc-guard is looking for enemies here.
A strong, tall orc-guard is looking for enemies here.
A strong, tall orc-guard is looking for enemies here.
The Ohurk-uai orc chief is here, leading his tribe.
Exits: south, up, down.
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.
An orc-guard says 'YIO! Hun! Yia voll koi kawore yoer tife.'
You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Healthy>backstab chief
No way! You are fighting for your life!

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Healthy>
An Ohurk-uai soldier swiftly dodges your attempt to pierce him.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Healthy>es
escape south
You seek to escape...
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

An orc-guard joins an orc-guard's fight.
An orc-guard says 'Due sciw!'
The Ohurk-uai chief stabs your left arm extremely hard.
You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.

An Ohurk-uai soldier joins an orc-guard's fight.
An orc-guard tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

You failed to escape the fight!
An Ohurk-uai soldier stabs your left arm and tickles it.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Healthy>
An orc-guard tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Healthy>es

You pierce an Ohurk-uai soldier's left hand hard.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Fine>escape south
You seek to escape...

es
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

An orc-guard strongly stabs your right foot and tickles it.

You failed to escape the fight!
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

!O CSW HP:Fine Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Fine>escape south
You seek to escape...

You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

es
The Ohurk-uai chief stabs your left foot very hard.

You failed to escape the fight!
You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.

!O CSW HP:Hurt Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Fine>escape south
You seek to escape...

You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

es
An Ohurk-uai soldier fails to stab you.
The Ohurk-uai chief stabs your left foot very hard.

You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.

You failed to escape the fight!

!O CSW HP:Hurt Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Fine>escape south
You seek to escape...

You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.

es
You failed to escape the fight!
The Ohurk-uai chief stabs your left arm hard.
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

!O CSW HP:Hurt Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Fine>escape south
You seek to escape...
An Ohurk-uai soldier tries to stab you, but your parry is successful.

An orc-guard stabs your left leg and tickles it.

es
You swiftly dodge an orc-guard's attempt to stab you.
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

You failed to escape the fight!
An orc-guard stabs your right leg extremely hard.
You feel a sharp pain there!
You stop sneaking.

!O CW HP:Hurt Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Fine>escape south
You seek to escape...
You flee head over heels.
You flee up.
It is pitch black...
You are inside.
A burly orc-guard is here, sniffing at the air.
A burly orc-guard is here, sniffing at the air.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
Exits/emulated: south, up, down.

o= CW HP:Hurt Mana:Warm>
You swiftly dodge an Ohurk-uai soldier's attempt to stab you.

o= CW HP:Hurt Mana:Warm an Ohurk-uai soldier:Healthy>
You swiftly dodge a burly orc's attempt to stab you.
You flee head over heels.
You flee north.
It is pitch black...
You are in a field.
An orc of the Ohurk-uai stands here, cursing and grumbling.
Exits/emulated: {north}, {south}, down.

o. CW HP:Hurt Mana:Warm>north
It is pitch black...
You are in a field.
Exits/emulated: north, east, south, west.

o. CW HP:Hurt Mana:Warm>tt lol
[tell Mandor lol]
Ok.
Relim
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 6:50 pm

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Relim »

First thoughts: Sneak didn't turn back on - as noted by others - think this should be automatic.

Second thoughts: WHere do I prac escape? ;-) (It'd been so long since I had played puke!)

Got escape, so real second thoughts:

Escape versus 1 or 2 with 85% escape (I ran out of pracs at 14) was pretty much 100%, so no worries.

Escape versus Tharbad guards (when i failed a stab at last) was almost impossible. Had to use testbot to get out of there (avoiding flee obviously). Would hate to think what would happen if I didn't have the teleporting testbot.

I'm not sure I've much to add to what others have said above:

1. This doesn't solve the thief problem/over-power - that of hide - but will prevent us from fighting solo. The problem is that the small advantage offered a thief is sneak-shoot, and removing that takes us from being rather effective to entirely ineffective. Thieves aren't meant to go toe-to-toe - just as some find this particularly thrilling to spam bash through to get the first one in, we prefer the sneaky-nasty approach and while balance should be sought, this is taking away too much in one painful swoop. In a group environment where we don't engage, sneak-shoot will still be fine (say when a warrior buffs), but is that what thieves are supposed to be reduced to?

2. The points also raised should be followed if this path is chosen:- escape faster, panic much shorter, sneak automatically back on when panic has gone, increased pracs to allow for the increased demand on the pracs we have (an extra 8, perhaps, to help cover the cost of escape).

Read on another thread that teleport should be removed. I think that'd have a far better impact on the game (or perhaps make teleport non-storeable). We're taking a sledgehammer to a nut on this set of challenges; reduce the effect of hide (or increase the time), perhaps hit thieves with increeased COST of sneak, but don't make us impotent following one flee unless it has a knock on effect onto other classes to truly balance it.
heysus
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:19 am

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by heysus »

This escape change as I began to think about it is even more ridiculous, thieves literally become not playable in any zone with > 2 mobs in a room or fighting against more then one player... Backstab isent overpowered, it amazes me some of the best players in the game whine about backstab when its almost 100% avoidable(admittly no matter how good you are you do eat a backstab occasionally , but that is also only from another really good thief player and is non fatal mostly). I don't even play thieves as of now besides a lowbie, and I think this change is pretty bad. In fact I play mostly casters (see the people ugurz insta stabs dead) but the way thieves work now with the exception of hide is good. Even ugurz at level 80+ cant just insta kill peapend, in fact he cant enter a lot of closables without at least significant risk of ripping. This is with a level diffirence of at least 40. Thieves in mume are very cool, and the backstab feature is really cool.


Flush q, use it. Ive heard people say it fails, very very very rarely will flush or reveal fail but if thats the case just make it so reveal and flush never fail. Also make it so reveal automatically makes it so that any awake person is made aware of the thief.
Razoor
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:20 am

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Razoor »

Of course i tested it Azazello, but only for a short time. However, you dont have to test much to realize
that it would kill thieves in closeables, and though Fankil is right that I indeed am biased, i still believe
i have a pretty good point. We dont want backstabbing-running-foresthiding thieves, no one does.

Forcing a thief to flee instantly after failing a stab would render the class extremely annoying to play
and to encounter. I agree with whoever said that hide is the only thing that needs to be fixed. There is
already a rather huge delay for every command executed while sneaking which makes it impossible to
spam stuff down or sometimes even close people in, this is fine. A chance to panic that makes you
unable to sneak is simply not necessary, just listen to the suggestions people have about hide/track and
find a better solution there, no need to tweak sneak to tweak thieves survivability.
Adverse
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:12 pm

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Adverse »

As Voravith pointed out, zorcs dont even get escape. I unless you give that skill to zorcs this changes seems very much like killing a whole race..
voravith
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:21 pm

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by voravith »

Peapend: Ugurz don't stab level 40 pukemage instarip because compared to bns you most likely have more hps. And try to eat a stab with venom, if a shaman with 250 hps and armor gets stabbed to awful, then i dont think that a bn with 170 hps will survive a venom stab. And stab is not 100% avoidable as you mentioned, if you play alone you don't have people to spamflush each time you track. Not to mention all other delayed crap.
Practice what you preach imo.
Peapend
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:09 pm
Location: California

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Peapend »

Actually peapend cant eat any stabs from ugurz I will proably die to following arrow. I was talking about in a fight, im well aware how effective backstab is, however there are ways to not eat stabs even solo... Also keep in mind ugurz is a level 80 somthing stabber he should be powered especially when his odds without suprised are reduced greatly.. a level 80 warrior against ugurz would slaughter him...


Oh and currently peapend has 145 hits....
Elestir
Posts: 231
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:47 pm
Location: Olomouc, Czech Republic
Contact:

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Elestir »

While I didn't test it on test mume, let me comment on one of the ideas...

Taking away the sneak from scouts affected by panic is interesting idea, yet it could be way too harsh, as someone mentioned already. Sneaking is undoubtely the primary skill of any scout, and inability to use this skill when scout needs it most (when he runs for his life from enemy hugegroup for example) is not logical. On the other hand I agree that sneaking is way too effective for retreating purposes. Therefore if you are trying to solve this problem, perhaps you could solve it by making sneak 2x as slow as now and adapt the revealing of mobs so it is still possible to xp. Some balance tweaks would be still needed though. When entering room, you would not automatically reveal all present sneakers as you do nowadays even with no awareness/alertness level set (you would have to reveal, flush or have rather high perception values). Sneak-shoot strategy would also suffer a bit from this (in PK), so maybe shoot from non-hidden position could be improved a bit to balance it (e.g. by increasing M_OB of the missile weapons).
Nockurzh
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 1:00 am

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Nockurzh »

Erm, April fools day is 2 weeks from now. Please tell me this is a joke...
Otherwise we have some very fucked up immo making up stupid ideas becasue he/she is not smart enough to avoid backstabs...
Escape thing makes me think if this change is not ment to remove zorc scouts mostly?
People who compare all scouts to ugurz, please remind yourself that Ugurz is actually a high level scout... Id like to see lev 80+ puke not beeing powerful...
That change would pretty much make scout boring to play and also for others boring to fight against them since, as pointed out before, it would be stab and run only...
If I could vote, id vote it: NO
Mindy
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:38 am

Re: Test-mume feedback on scout changes

Post by Mindy »

why not expand it so that you cant cast spells or bash when panicked?
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