Is This Abuse?

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Wobbler
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:02 pm

Is This Abuse?

Post by Wobbler » Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:16 pm

I was TPing my poor Snaga near RtT when this occurred...

o~ cW tt: this d: exit HP:Hurt Mana:Icy>w;e
Watery Tunnel
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A powerful lioness is sleeping here.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A powerful lioness is sleeping here.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A powerful lioness is sleeping here.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A powerful lioness is sleeping here.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A powerful lioness is sleeping here.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A powerful lioness is sleeping here.
A powerful lioness is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is sleeping here.
A stocky mountain mule is here, waiting to serve.
*a Half-Elf* is sleeping here (shrouded). <--- Look at him!
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A small, naked humanoid creature glares at you.
A mountain lioness pads quietly through the terrain.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A powerful lioness is sleeping here.
A powerful lioness is sleeping here.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A powerful lioness is barely visible in the grass.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A grizzly cub is sleeping here.
A grizzly bear is sleeping here.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A huge grizzly bear is here, roaming the wild.
A grizzly cub is here, snarling loudly.
A hungry warg (Mine) is standing here.
Exits: east.
You have found a brushman!
You have found a brushman!
A grizzly bear lightly hits your right hand and tickles it.
A grizzly bear lightly hits your body and tickles it.
A grizzly bear hits your left arm and tickles it.
A grizzly cub barely hits your left foot and tickles it.
A grizzly cub fails to hit you.
A grizzly cub fails to hit you.

![ cW tt: this d: exit HP:Wounded Mana:Icy a grizzly bear:Healthy>
No way! You are fighting for your life!
A grizzly bear hits your right arm.
You flee head over heels.
PANIC! You couldn't escape!



296 mobs if I counted right.
Politicians are wise and benevolent and will gladly sacrifice themselves for the common good. Anyone who implies that there might exist dishonest politicians is obviously a terrorist who should be locked up indefinitely without a trial.

Edvard
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:05 pm

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Edvard » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:08 pm

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THAT is abuse...

Vortenos
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:53 pm
Location: Wisconsin, United States

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Vortenos » Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:26 pm

I'd label that "player abuse". Though, if they are non-aggressive that would be a sweet room to mop up loads of xp.
All extremists should be shot.

Civril
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:28 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Civril » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:45 pm

Would it possible to exp this kind of room with shroud+store+quake+armor or would it hurt just too much (failed flee).
“Hey you, goblin. Uh, put on this magic helmet. Yeah, I know you're attacking me, but look, shiny helmet. Shiny!”

Peapend
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:09 pm
Location: California

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Peapend » Wed Apr 16, 2008 9:26 pm

Just store 4 quakes walk in and quake.... only 8 mobs can engage you. nice xp.

Wobbler
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:02 pm

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Wobbler » Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:41 pm

I assume the Half-Elf who was sleeping in there was planning to do just that.
Politicians are wise and benevolent and will gladly sacrifice themselves for the common good. Anyone who implies that there might exist dishonest politicians is obviously a terrorist who should be locked up indefinitely without a trial.

Civril
Posts: 22
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:28 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Civril » Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:32 am

As I understand he summoned those mobs.
Need to 'locate life' them first?
How can one be sure not to summon a mob already there?
“Hey you, goblin. Uh, put on this magic helmet. Yeah, I know you're attacking me, but look, shiny helmet. Shiny!”

Alantir
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Alantir » Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:57 am

Civril wrote:How can one be sure not to summon a mob already there?
You get a rough distance to the mob when you locate life. As long as you don't summon mobs that are 'very close' you won't resummon any.

Thaq
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:18 pm

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Thaq » Thu Apr 17, 2008 3:05 pm

This has been caught in the past, and someone was demoted for it I think....

Falls under the "if its too good to be true, it probably illegal" thing...

Belamir
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Belamir » Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:19 pm

What exactly is 'too good to be true' here?

Do you have any idea how long it takes to summon that many mobs? Personally I'd rather seek those mobs out and kill them, than do this, even as a solo mage (not that quaking that sort of room isn't tempting..)..

EDIT: I suspect that the demotion you are referring to was when earthquake was significantly reduced in damage (a change since reversed), and a player gathered a large number of mobs in one room, then would quake them, let them heal, quake them, let them heal, etc., to gain huge amounts of damage-exp without actually getting any of those mobs on his trophy (damage exp from a mob is, or was, reduced as you got more of that mob on your trophy).

Different situation, really. There, the abuse was the ability to gain huge amounts of exp while circumventing the exp-balancing effects of the trophy system; here, the trophy system will operate normally, and this sort of thing will, I suspect, not really be any more efficient than exping normally.

EDIT EDIT: Actually, I believe the exact abuse was that when you had no instances of a mobile on your trophy, the percent knowledge of that mobile would be treated as 0%, nomatter how much damage you dealt one of those mobiles.

Getting even one of those mobiles on your trophy ruined this 'trick,' as then the percent knowledge would increase as you dealt copies of that mobile damage. Because damage-exp is (or was) linked to percent knowledge, keeping a mobile off your trophy would make the game think you had never damaged one before, and, presto! Max damage exp, that will remain max damage exp, nomatter how much damage you deal to copies of that mobile (as long as you don't accidentally kill one).

I think Ypsilon gained a bunch of exp towards level 100 this way, by backstabbing the shady innkeeper.

Still, that was an entirely different situation; summoning this many mobs and quaking them shouldn't bypass any of the exp-balancing effects of the trophy system (pretty sure they fixed the 'trick' referred to above).

Alantir
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:55 pm

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Alantir » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:05 pm

I also don't see how summoning and quaking mobs would be abuse.

You have the spell 'summon' which summons creatures. You have the spell 'earthquake' which kills numerous creatures.

Both are used as intended here.

As long as you don't use obvious bugs like Belamir described I see no problem with this.

Wobbler
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:02 pm

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Wobbler » Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:48 pm

At most 7 mobs can be engaged to a player at a time, or about one in every fifty mobs summoned.
Politicians are wise and benevolent and will gladly sacrifice themselves for the common good. Anyone who implies that there might exist dishonest politicians is obviously a terrorist who should be locked up indefinitely without a trial.

Belamir
Posts: 32
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 11:28 pm

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Belamir » Fri Apr 18, 2008 3:37 pm

If you're using that as your reasoning for suggesting this is abuse, Wobbler, I personally think it's shaky at best. It's not as if there aren't instances naturally occuring in the game world where you can quake groups of more than 7 mobiles.

Considering the amount of time required to summon this many mobiles, my vote is let him have the small advantage gained by the 7-mobile engagement limitation.

Antti
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:13 am
Location: .fi

Re: Is This Abuse?

Post by Antti » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:47 am

There could be a bug involved if he did not summon those mobs there (which he most likely did), but the mobiles ended up stacking there due to broken zone design. For example having one-way exit to a room with no exits out that the mobiles could use, or the same thing with one-way NO_MOB flagging. Should you find these kind of unexpected mob nests (not his one), they are worth checking with the guys up there.

Locked