Mage / Cleric spells & hybrids

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Mage / Cleric spells & hybrids

Post by science »


Returning after a long time away, and trying to wrap my head about this whole practicing in one class messes up your other classes thing.

I have a level 29 that used to be a mage/cleric hybrid. Sounds like this isn't the best idea anymore?

Which is more useful then? I don't tend to like soloing, so something that will get me a group or make someone want to xp/hunt with me might be best.

== Cleric? Should I rely upon harm/dispel evil for damage spells, or shooting, or get a mage spell like ligning bolt or fireball?
Can I safely learn teleport/locate, or should I just run around like a non-magic user?

Should I practice shoot or just use a bow without practicing it? since it's a thief skill? Escape?

bob, trans, sanc, heal, cure critic...

shroud? detect invis?

Are lower level spells less harmful to your class-level? There's no-way to see your class-level, is there?

Lots of people have a % they know their training is - how do you tell that?

Here is what I currently have, it's kind of a mess but I'm elegible for a prac reset.
Awareness Bad Normal None
Climb Bad Very easy None
Ride Fair Very easy None
Swim Poor Very easy None
Track Fair Normal None
Wilderness Poor Normal None
Armour Average Hard Magic User 30, Very short
Burning hands Excellent Normal Magic User 7, Very short
Call lightning Excellent Hard Magic User 15, Short
Control weather Fair Hard Magic User 26, Short
Create light Average Easy Magic User 5, Very short
Detect invisibility Average Normal Magic User 5, Very short
Enchant Very good Very hard Magic User 93, Short
Find the path Average Normal Magic User 22, Very short
Fireball Excellent Hard Magic User 15, Very short
Lightning bolt Excellent Hard Magic User 11, Very short
Locate Average Hard Magic User 21, Very short
Locate life Poor Hard Magic User 45, Normal
Night vision Poor Normal Magic User 30, Very short
Shield Fair Hard Magic User 34, Very short
Shroud Fair Hard Magic User 5, Very short
Store Very good Hard Magic User 25, Short
Teleport Excellent Hard Magic User 35, Very short
Watch room Good Normal Magic User 42, Short
Bless Average Normal Cleric 5, Very short
Blindness Average Hard Cleric 10, Very short
Break door Good Normal Cleric 67, Short
Breath of briskness Fair Hard Cleric 28, Short
Create food Poor Normal Cleric 5, Very short
Create water Poor Normal Cleric 5, Very short
Cure blindness Poor Normal Cleric 5, Very short
Cure critic Poor Normal Cleric 31, Short
Cure serious Fair Normal Cleric 15, Very short
Heal Very good Hard Cleric 53, Short
Protection from evil Average Normal Cleric 20, Very short
Remove curse Poor Normal Cleric 30, Normal
Remove poison Poor Normal Cleric 8, Short
Sanctuary Very good Very hard Cleric 63, Short
Sense life Poor Normal Cleric 6, Very short
Strength Fair Hard Cleric 21, Very short
Transfer Very good Very hard Cleric 54, Short
Attack Bad Normal Thief
Dodge Bad Hard Thief
Pick Bad Normal Thief
Piercing weapons Poor Normal Thief
Search Bad Normal Thief
Endurance Bad Very hard Warrior
Parry Bad Normal Warrior

Your base abilities are: Str:8 Int:17 Wis:21 Dex:7 Con:10 Wil:16 Per:9. @ max age.

Sorry for so many questions :)
Bug Hunter
Posts: 214
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Location: Sweden

Re: Mage / Cleric spells & hybrids

Post by Caerroil »

More or less all casters (combo and pure alike) get a base set of spells, usually the following (with the number of pracs within the parenthesises): armour (max), shield (max), bob (max), cure serious/light (3-8), remove poison (2-4), create food and/or water (1-2), bless (2), cure blindness (1-2) and block door (3-5).

The more you combine from different classes the more you lose efficiency in your original main class, how great that effect varies depending on what classes are combined, what skills and how many pracs in those skills. Levels offset this effect in some ways, due to many spells having a cap on how good they become, or at least a practical cap if not a theoretical cap. So at high level many, if not most, mages and clerics get some significant spell(s) from the other class, in addition to the base set mentioned above. Popular spells to get are store+earthquake or charm for clerics and sanctuary for mages, others are store+teleport for clerics and a lot less common word of recall for mages. There aren't many cleric spells that will add much for a mage in a sufficiently reliable way, that is most cleric spells rely on the caster being fairly pure to work well while there are plenty of mage spells which doesn't require that many pracs or much pureness to work sufficiently well.
That said you don't have to be high level to make a cleric+mage combo, though you will need to sacrifice some things to get enough pracs. Depending on what you choose to sacrifice you will most likely become limited by it, and thus it is a question of if the added spell(s) adds enough to offset the limitation(s) it indirectly causes for you to consider it worth it.

Some specific advice in your case:
Clerics are generally far more useful in groups than mages for exp while for PK it is more even.
As a cleric I wouldn't say that it is worth it to get a mage spell for damage, while your direct damage spells might not be great at your level they are ok and will be good/great later on and even at your level you have access to one of the best ways to do damage vs. mobs, which is blind+shoot.
missile: Not needed, but you can get 1-2 pracs for a little added speed and reliability when shooting non-blinded opponents.
escape: Get 1-2 pracs to increase the effect of people protecting you.
teleport: You could get it, but teleport ranges have been significantly reduced since you last played so it isn't likely to be of as much use as it used to.
shroud: 1 prac is all you need, and it is very convenient to have in many cases.
detect invisibility: Is nowadays useless once you reach a high enough level to be able to see through shroud, which is around level 20 for very low WIL characters and down towards 10 for high WIL characters.

Decaying pracs is very easy nowadays, since they decay even while you are rented if you have set them on train off. So it is much easier to test out different spells nowadays, since it takes about 2 days to decay all pracs in a maxed spell. So take whatever advice you get as some kind of base and then test adding different spells you used to like or think you might like now. It it works out, great, if not it doesn't take long to get rid of the pracs to test out something new or go back to something you found previously that you liked.
Such a "huge" list of spells as you used to have won't really work at your level in MUME today, but that doesn't in any way mean that you can't make a far more extensive list of spells than most people use work for you.
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Re: Mage / Cleric spells & hybrids

Post by science »

Thank you for your most excellent response! :)

I had heard decaying was easier, I didn't realize that much!

Store+earthquake was made less effective recently, right? It also rather relies upon soloing, since it damages everyone... Soloing realistically is always pretty common I guess.

I'm still slightly more tempted towards the mage side than the cleric side. Can I still add blind to the list of spells you included ( armour (max), shield (max), bob (max), cure serious/light (3-8), remove poison (2-4), create food and/or water (1-2), bless (2), cure blindness (1-2) and block door (3-5).) and still turn out ok?

Add a few pracs in pick, or break door?

Any thoughts on control weather / call lightning? Not worth it"?

Cure serious/light = why would you choose light over serious?

Thanks again!
Bug Hunter
Posts: 214
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:25 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Mage / Cleric spells & hybrids

Post by Caerroil »

Break door is one spell I forgot to mention as quite common for mages to get, however you won't get away with much less than maxing it (at your level) if you want to be able to cast it without backfiring once you don't have full mana.

Call lightning isn't very good at all for exp, it takes too much time to get weather up for it to be better than fireball. For PK it can be good, but most of the time it is way too annoying to use so I wouldn't recommend it unless you really like it or have spare pracs.

Blindness on a mage is unlikely to work that well, at least at your level (yes, levels does matter a lot especially for how much you can prac cross-class with it working well). It wouldn't make you that much worse as a mage, but the spell itself wouldn't work that well.

The choice between cure light and cure serious is very much a matter of personal taste, I can't say that I have noticed any greater efficiency from either of them neither with mages nor clerics. Cure light is a bit better if you aren't much of a caster due to it being a lower level spell, but that isn't relevant for you.

The idea with getting store+quake on a cleric is to add something which the class doesn't have in itself, a storeable spell and earthquake has the added benefit that it does damage everyone in the room but that can be compensated with sanc (which clerics have easy access to). Most clerics who get store+quake get it to use it in PK, though it can easily be used for exp too. Also earthquake can still be very efficient, just not quite as good as it once was (lower damage and slightly higher level so you can't store as many, at least not until you get quite high level).

Since it is so easy to decay spells try out some thing, like getting blindness on a mage, and see if it works well enough for you. If you do go for praccing as a mage do get the sleep spell, it is by far the most useful mage spell when it comes to exping in a group (if you can cast it well enough that is, but I assume that shouldn't be any real problem for you since I assume that you have high-ish WIL).
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Re: Mage / Cleric spells & hybrids

Post by science »

I'm still somewhat confused about which spells to put just a few practices into, and which to max or nearly max.

Granted, I could just dive in and try casting them, but I'm traveling right now so doing lots of pre-thinking rather than actual playing lately.

Going for cleric+store+quake for now. Also thought about cleric+sleep, but am un-sure what the 'mage level' would be if I didn't have many page skills?

enchant - needed for focus staff, but how high? Max enchant as a mostly-cleric would mean I'd need to max it? Otherwise 1 prac would work for a staff, since I just need to cast it the once? Might be handy to enchant arrows...

store -need to max to store 3 quakes+ a teleport?

shield, armour?

teleport, locate life? Since I'm getting store already...

* Max or nearly max:

ride 80%
climb 60%
swim 60%
track 75%?
wilderness: 50%
endurance: 30%?

* 2-3 pracs in:
cure critic, in case ppl get that alot
cure serious, when heal is too much (50 mana vs. 15)
create food
prot from evil
maybe cure serious/critical, or just rely upon heal?
enchant. 12-17=5ob+1dmg, 18-19, 10ob+1dmb, 20+=10ob+2dmg. how to tell which=identify?
identify - temporarily, to find out how i'm doing with my enchanting

1 prac:
cure blind, poison, water, create light, shroud

No pracs needed in dodge/parry?

Thanks again for your help :)
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Location: Germany

Re: Mage / Cleric spells & hybrids

Post by Timodeus »

In general (imho!):
I'd max the spells you really want to work (best):
Your attackspells, blind, armour, shield, sanc, your main cure-spell, bob, store...

You also want to max ride and nearly max wilderness (if that pays depends on your stats).

You put some pracs in support spells "until they work". What "until they work" means depends on your stats/level (which means that changes as you advance).
Spells here could be remp, cure crit, bob, shroud, cure blind...

You put "a few" pracs (1 to...) in spells as bless, create food/water/light if you want them.

I'd put 2-4 pracs in each of:
Your weaponskill, attack (if piercer), dodge, endurance, parry...

Also, if you are not planning to trap people or so... I'd forget about teleport and locate life. Those are nice spells to play around with... but if you don't have a "plan" what to do with them... they are a waste of pracs, imho.

Enchant is some sort of issue... if you are legend-mage, some 7 pracs can be enough of you cast in a good aligned area. Since you can decay spells quickly it is also not a problem to keep enchant at a lower level (not max chant) and prac (and decay afterwards) it to make your stuff. Just don't lose your staffs often if you do something like that. ;)


But I'm sure you'll hear more and different opinions as well.;)