Ask anything, here!

[Andróg]

In this thread you can ask about anything that you have been unable to find an answer to. No matter how small or insignificant, if you need someone more experienced to explain you something, say so here.

[Penuel]

new to mume and love it. got in because of my brother who used to play and gets on sometimes. i was wondering about thief percentages. so in the newbie class guide here it says that for a pure thief, it is better to be a man or to get as close to 101 % because ob/hp/mp regen will be greater with man and you keep superb status of skills. is that based on higher str and con? is ob derived from str? yet when i read some of the other guides or posts about thief stats it says that you want as high of percentages in sneak and backstab as you can get. my question i guess is which is better 106 % in backstab and sneak on elf or the higher ob/hp/regen on man with say 102% in backstab and sneak. and when people say pure thief does that mean NO pracs outside thief/ranger or does that mean <10 pracs total outside thief/ranger?

i was wondering about play styles also. wondering how thieves finish off their target? are there thieves out there with bash? does it work? people use envenom alot? i guess how do you stop someone from spam-fleeing, or if you are trapped in a room with them, say a warrior now at half hit points...surely at this point he can just hit me to death.

about track. more and more i hear that it is necessary for pk. how high is good enough for pk? what is the difference in 96% and 100% and 104%. as a warrior the character might give up alot to get a change in 4% track. is it the difference of a couple seconds? is 100 + necessary?

thanks for any answers and for the game.

[Ortansia]

Hi and welcome to Mume
Well I'm not expert in thief race, but i fought many times scouts so i think I have a good general idea about it :p

Anyway as far as I know There are four types of scout
1)Pure scout: they use sneak and backstab to get kills, this type of thieves are not very liked, and also considered as lame and wimpy :p. They are easy to level and warlord. they use mainly piercing weapon skill which helps them with defence . About the stat, I think they run with high dexterity and perception.

2) war scout: these type of scouts use bash and shoot to get kills, they also use warrior weaponskill which allow them to do more damage than pure scouts. They are very popular nowadays. About their stats, I think they have high strength and will

3) poison thieves: these thieves use envenom skill, which means they poison their victims with venom or other poison like Arachnia. they are rare, maybe because many people have antidote or remove poison rings. About stats, I think they run with high dexterity and intelligence or even wisdom aswell which may help them with mixing poison lores

4) Thief mage: this category is very rare, only hardcores players play it. I don't have much informations about it

To answer your questions about track I think the different between high % of track and low one, is speed and effectivness :p, In pk fast track helps you spam down the enemy fast enough before he or she can regens hp and moves and escape :p.

Ps: once again im not expert, so I hope someone else make additions or correct me if I said something wrong

[Elestir]

so in the newbie class guide here it says that for a pure thief, it is better to be a man or to get as close to 101 % because ob/hp/mp regen will be greater with man and you keep superb status of skills.

There are basically 3 good choices for whitie thief:

• Hobbit
  Pros: racial sneak bonus (more than Elf); barefoot sneak bonus; small weight; good DEX, CON & WIL
  Cons: vulnerable to trolls; can't ride better mounts; manaregen; lower STR (lower than Elf)
• Elf
  Pros: racial sneak bonus; immune to disease; manaregen; better walking on snow when light; good DEX & PER
  Cons: moveregen; hp-regen; lower STR, CON & WIL
• Man
  Pros: moveregen, good STR
  Cons: no racial sneak bonuses

is that based on higher str and con? is ob derived from str?

Higher STR will affect mostly mobility while walking on foot and allows you to carry bit more equipment while still keeping good dodging bonus. It also helps with learning bash. Higher CON will affect mostly your hps, hp-regen and moveregen. But regen is not only about stats. Races differ in base regeneration ratios and CON (in case of hp-regen and moveregen) only adds little more to this. OB is mostly based on your level and knowledge in weapon skill. High STR also provides a bonus in OB, but a very little one AFAIK.

yet when i read some of the other guides or posts about thief stats it says that you want as high of percentages in sneak and backstab as you can get. my question i guess is which is better 106 % in backstab and sneak on elf or the higher ob/hp/regen on man with say 102% in backstab and sneak.

The suggestion to max sneak and backstab is a good one and is especially true for combos (who suffered a loss in their effective thief level due to praccing outside of their main class). For this reason, combos should preferably max their DEX and PER (to get the percentage as high as possible, to make up for the mentioned loss).

In practice, the percentage (and racial bonus to some degree as well) is much more important vs mobiles than vs players. So if you plan to be mostly PKer, you do not need to be that much concerned with 106% vs 102% differences (but even for PKer it helps in some cases, such as when your target is in room with mobiles aggressive to you). If you mostly plan to xp, every % helps a lot. But % is not everything, pureness counts a lot too. Pure scout with bad stats and therefore less % could still perform better in those skills than combo with good stats and better % because of this. (this is true in general also for other classes).

and when people say pure thief does that mean NO pracs outside thief/ranger or does that mean <10 pracs total outside thief/ranger?

The definition is not that strict, but in general it means he has no bash or other weaponskill than pierce and missile, some parry and endurance (maybe couple of pracs in rescue too) and only few pracs in trivial spells like cure light.

i was wondering about play styles also. wondering how thieves finish off their target? are there thieves out there with bash? does it work?

Bash + shoot is a strong weapon, especially when scouts work in pair. Bash speed is believed to be based among other things on DEX, and since thieves tend to have this very high, they usually make fast bashers. Their OB and bash % is however bit lower than that of warriors, which makes it harder for them to bash defensive targets (at least without parry split).

people use envenom alot? i guess how do you stop someone from spam-fleeing, or if you are trapped in a room with them, say a warrior now at half hit points...surely at this point he can just hit me to death.

Regular use of envenom is not so efficient these days (because of the excessive general mobility of players and other obstacles game puts in way like difficulty of mixing based on WIS which makes thieves the worst poison mixers in game and also the weight of the ingrediences - thieves need to remain light). Still thieves have special use, as venom poison can boost their backstab damage significantly (something like +10% damage, but I don't know exactly, so test it yourself). So it helps mostly those backstab'n'run thieves relying on killing with backstab. The weight of ingrediences for this type of poison is also relatively small and the ingrediences themselves are easy to get.

about track. more and more i hear that it is necessary for pk. how high is good enough for pk? what is the difference in 96% and 100% and 104%. as a warrior the character might give up alot to get a change in 4% track. is it the difference of a couple seconds? is 100 + necessary?

96% is good enough for checking crossroads, 104% is good enough for slowtracking. Track is however rarely problem for a scout, as they tend to have very high PER (max or max-1 usually), which itself grants them access to 104% at the very least (probably more).

[cohen]

There are differences among the races.
- they have different modification of stats. So you can make elf with intelligence 19, but man just with 18. Each skill you will train to learn is base on how high score you have in stats needed for the skill. So you are able to learn backstab quicker and to higher level with dexterity 19 and per 18 than with dexterity 15 and per 11
- each race has its "base modification" for regen speed of hps/mvs/mana. So man, elf and hobbit will not regen same amount of hps, mvs, mana for same stats per second.
- i think also each race need different amount of mvs to move over different sector types - forest,hill, mountains
- there are some race specific malus, bonus - like
elves are immune to diseases, they can ride horses without saddle
hobbits get bonus when barefoot, they have malus when trying to ride large mounts
dwarves get OB bonus when standing on their feet and wielding axe .....

So the advice to pick up man for thief is saying that man have decent regen of hps and mvs and you are still able to create character with enough high stats for thief - max dex is 18/max per 18. Theoretically you can create char with higher dex/per -> elf has max dex 19/max per 19 or hobbit max dex 19/max per 18, but both of these races have some maluses which can complicate your life as newbie thief.

For some skill you will get linearly more as you progress with % knowledge. For some skills you will get much in some jumps (something per each 5% of knowledge) and for some skills you need reach some level of % knowledge to get something or to have working skill. So general advice for skills like stab, sneak is to have them 101%+.

As said above for some skill there is not much difference between 96%, 101%,104%, for another it is noticeable difference. So thief skills like backstab, sneak are one of these where it matters. Regarding bash, you need OB (offensive bonus) and some % knowledge and these values are combined and competes with victim "defence". So you need to reach some level of % to be able to bash something. Yes, track is very valuable. You can check if someone entered the cave you are standing before etc - so it helps you find your prey. If you want follow track of something for long time you need more than 101% to be enough quick. For just checking who cross this bridge you can live with something over 80% - depend of personal preference how much over. Also track under lets say 60% is totally useless.

Generally, Yes there is some math behind, but it is not public. So the info you can get are some assumptions based on long observation or some testing and a lot of speculations. We do not know how the math is really counting. So do not waste to much time with thinking if your thief is OK just because you have stab just 102% and not 106%. So for thief pick high dex, per, decent constitution, strength, left something for willpower and also intelligence to be able track lately and do not care about wisdom. And go to enjoy the game and later when you will find your own way you can create another char which will suit a bit more the way you want to play.

Good resource you can aslo check is - community pages http://www.elvenrunes.com, but again all the discussions there how to set-up perfect char are a lot of subjective and discuss how to get 10% more from your char.

[Penuel]

Thank you guys. this has helped me understand a little about track and all the % stuff and importance of racial characteristics. However because everyone hates the pure thief so much, i think i will focus on warrior for time being.

[Terdamon]

I strongly suggest not to let yourself be led by the opinions of others. First of all you should answer the question if, and to which extent, you want to fight other players (PK). If you plan to play mostly against mobiles, a pure thief might be a good choice and also might help you to learn the areas and strengths and weaknesses of mobiles.
This is especially true since you definitely will mess up your first character and also die a lot with him. At least this is true for the 99% of the playing population who were not born as a natural genius. This is more or less harsh since most people like their first character rather a lot, but this truth is coming from experience. So just try out a playstyle of your choice, and if you like thieves, just go ahead! When you have some more insight into the game, you can make informed choices and create other characters, but first steps first.

[Toadvine]

If you make a thief I highly recommend against making an elf. Unless you have very nice eq (and/or constant access to traveling herblore) you will have serious issues with move points. Man or hobbit is much better for this imo... Personally I think hobbit is more fun , especially if you are going more pure class. Both can make good warscouts if you stat/prac/play them right, but if you want to go this route I would suggest getting in contact with an experienced player in game for some personalized advice. Feel free to send me a tell in game if you see me on. I play Cernunnos and Ibom on good side.

[Ondoril]

ok... wondering about keep at bay... does it depend on your ob? do spears do more damage to riding, or just greater chance to keep at bay for riding? If keep at bay is based on ob, best to have ob gear? or metal gear that lowers ob? up to what level can you train stats? does will help with hp/move regen other than through wilderness?

[Toadvine]

Regarding spears/stabbing weapons:
The 'keep at bay' feature depends on ob and and a racial modifier (Taller races such as Trolls are harder to keep at bay than smaller races such as Hobbits). Spears also give a nice damage boost when the opponent is riding. I'm not sure if you get a 'keep at bay' probability boost vs riding opponents, someone else else will have to chime in. As far as what gear to use with it, that really just depends on your character. I don't think a small increase in ob (like the 5% or so you lose for wearing metals) makes a huge difference compared to the extra absorb you get from metals. However, wearing metals has other detriments as well, such as being susceptible to concussion weapons, slower bash, higher move malice, etc. What gear you wear is really just going to depend on what you want your character to be good at (tanking vs bashing/hitting or somewhere in between).

Training stats:
Check out this thread - http://mume.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=12
Generally you can train your stats to the same level of difference of a standard reroll. It's a little funky though because stats train on a continuous scale so you can end up with 12.5 strength but it will show up as 12 or 13. I think it rounds to the nearest whole number.

Willpower:
Willpower doesn't help hp/move regen directly. It affects hp regen through endurance skill % and unmounted move cost reduction through wilderness %. However, willpower does affect mana regen directly.

Hope this helps!

[Ondoril]

thanks. i did not realize that metals slow bash. even chain? i guess it does come down to whether the extra 5 ob is worth the absorb you get from fine metal. appreciate the advice.

[Toadvine]

Wearing metals, and to a lesser degree chain mail, increases the amount of weight your character is carrying. It is suspected that this additional encumbrance slows bash speed. However, bash speed has a significant random element and is also influenced by dexterity so it is hard to test this directly.

[Maenon]

Hello everybody, new player here. I was just wondering what's the quickiest way to change alignment when you're under level 5.

[Andróg]

I assume you want to change your alignment to better, first of all.

But still, giving good advice about what to target when you're that low level is difficult. On a higher level any kind of undeads (ghosts, shadows, etc), orcs and trolls would be the good targets, but under level 5... well, farm-animals will not get it done for one, so killing cows is not the way. So I'd suggest targeting those wilderness-animals whom you can handle. Like, hm... well, bats for one!

But mostly I'd suggest just trying to level up until you can target better mobs. How bad is your alignment anyhow? Are the elven hunters chasing you? If not, if it's simply a matter of "I can't get into Grey Havens", then just don't worry about it. You can get the needed skills and equipment elsewhere as well, GH is not a must-visit place.

[cohen]

As Androg said. Depends how much evil you are. To raise alignment you need to kill enough exp on evil mobs. So there is no miracle way how to get the maximal good alignment on level 5. When you started to play a dwarf and pick well-meaning, it is not enough to get citizenship in Greyhavens. So just remove weapon if you need to inside and level around the city. Killing mobs like bats, wolf, later thieves, thugs,brigands, spirits and during the way you will get better alignment and you can successfully ask for citizenship.

Another possibility if you want to run around elven towns and be welcome here is to start as Elf. And you can later return to your current char, when you will be more familiar with the game.

On the other hand if you picked started alignment like corrupted, then it is better to create new char and start again. it is big disadvantage to play good race char, with evil base alignment. Definitely it is not good choice for a new player.

Getting evil alignment is very easy, kill some farmer etc, but the consequences can be tough. Good alignmnet mobs can start to hunt you, so again not good choise for a new player.

[Piotrhabera]

Ahh welcome, It is obvious that races are either larger or smaller (EX Dwarves are larger than Hobbits but they are smaller than Men or Trolls). I would like to know HOW size affects the general gameplay. (Mainly what weapons i can eq as a dwarf but other info is highly appreciated) Thanks!

[Rogon]

Ahh welcome, It is obvious that races are either larger or smaller (EX Dwarves are larger than Hobbits but they are smaller than Men or Trolls). I would like to know HOW size affects the general gameplay. (Mainly what weapons i can eq as a dwarf but other info is highly appreciated) Thanks!

Hello,

You can equip any weapon/armour. If you find something that does not fit you, you can use the resize it in a shop to fix that.

The most noteworthy thing that affects you as a dwarf is that you are very bad at riding horses, you must use a pony or a mule instead.

[Sanden]

Hi

I recently died from venom (rattlesanke near GH). Annoying thing is I fled at fine and had full mana to cure myself. However it wasn't enough. Venom killed me faster than I could sleep-regen and cure myself.
So it got me wondering. Is there any cure against poisons besides spells? Any potions or mobs that can cure my ailments for a piece of gold?
I heard there's a hobbit near Michel Delving who has infusion (kinda potion I guess)? What does that do? Any good against poisons?

[Rogon]

Hello,

There is a herblore that can cure poison - but it's not easy to get at low levels so it's probably not a realistic solution.

The best way to do is probably to 1. stay away from rattlesnakes! and 2. if you get poisoned by one, narrate and ask for help and move closer to a town. Moving closer to a town also lets you retrieve your corpse faster if you do perish from venom

[Sanden]

OK. Thanks for info. But what about infusion
"I heard there's a hobbit near Michel Delving who has infusion (kinda potion I guess)? What does that do? Any good against poisons?"

What' it good for?