Redesigning MUME.org web page

[Freyja]

As the old thread accidentally decayed, I made the new one. It would be great if people post their ideas again, but few questions have been answered:
The content will be built in WIKI page, located here - http://mume.org/wiki/ thus it needs a great design to fit the game needs and style. It is php and there are no limits for the design or layout.

This forum needs to be designed as well and it must fit the same style as the wiki page.
So in short we need to design:

MUME logo -
containing the "one ring" element or some other symbol with the same goal.
Big text "MUME" and the slogan "Multi Users in Middle Earth".
There can be two logos: for the web and for the prints.
Logo for the prints must be vector.
Logo for the web can be more dynamic and anti-aliased (colors, shadows, reflections).

Wiki page -
I think next step is to design the wiki page as it will be the main page and needs a more complex design.
Logo must fit the design.

Forum page-
The design of forum page should fit the main/wiki page style and it should be easy to design according to the previous, using the same logo and possible graphics.

Preferred color scheme to choose from (in order) black, gold, brown, grey, yellow...
There is no deadline for the designs, but we might need one in the future.
*All the fonts, graphics and symbols must be original artwork or without any commercial license.

Please repost your artwork and ideas!
Updated: New favicon file http://mume.freyja.pri.ee/mumefavicon.ico
To be continued...

[Wobbler]

Some links need updating, for instance powwow is now found at hoopajoo.net.

[Erondil]

On ER there was a discussion how to made the new website more newbie friendly, to keep it short details could be seen on ER. A idea was to draw a middle earth map with implemented links where area-maps are shown, only common stuff no secrets, door names and so on, for example click on Bree and the city-map will be shown, so that newbies learn a little about the area where they are and don't get so easy lost. The areas which are not existing in MUME will be fuzzy and maybe a note on them "under construction".

Of course we can discuss about this idea and which maps should be used or if we keep this idea, a suggestion was to use Rik's maps, if his maps should be used I need a link or a source where I can find his maps.

I finished the drawing and painting of the middle earth map, before I start with the linking, first the city-maps, and show it to the public a very important point should be solved.

I was not able to find out who have the copyright (license) on middle earth maps, I found out who have the copyright on Tolkien books, letters,..., on their website is a blank for license request but only if someone will publish a book which base on Tolkien's books or if text passage out of the books are used. Some site which show maps refer to GNU Free Documentation License and GFDL, maybe someone has expert knowledge with this issue and can solve it. I think it is comprehensible that this is a vital point if the idea with the middle earht map should kept.

[Freyja]

So, what I have so far:

Mume logo idea:


Layout ideas, before the wiki content was decided:
Layout idea 01 - with comments - http://mume.freyja.pri.ee/layout01_main_comments.jpg
Layout idea 01 - http://mume.freyja.pri.ee/layout01_main.jpg
*NB those are not real designs, just basic layout ideas, where should be what.

[Erondil]

A nice logo but a detail question, are not the fonts on the ring on both sides inside and outside.


About the map part, I was hoping that someone have experience on this issue, but if I look at the response it seems not or nobody cares. So I will stop working on this project until there is a decision about the copyright issue and will the idea be retained or not. If the carrier of the MUME website or the new website in the future require the middle earth map, even if the copyright issue is not clear, I will then finalise and make it available for them.

To time I stop working on it, maybe if the coryright issue is more clear I will finalise it and put it on my website.

[Freyja]

A nice logo but a detail question, are not the fonts on the ring on both sides inside and outside.

About the map part, I was hoping that someone have experience on this issue, but if I look at the response it seems not or nobody cares. So I will stop working on this project until there is a decision about the copyright issue and will the idea be retained or not. If the carrier of the MUME website or the new website in the future require the middle earth map, even if the copyright issue is not clear, I will then finalize and make it available for them.

To time I stop working on it, maybe if the coryright issue is more clear I will finalise it and put it on my website.

About the logo: Yeah I will draw a new logo with runes both, inside and outside. Little research I did later and noticed I had them missing :p

Sorry, I have been busy again with other things, but I don't want anyone to stop working on the mume website projects. I don't know what do you mean by the copyright issue, but mume wiki has this information (last line is about the maps):

Any player can edit any page!

Try to inline information instead of just linking to external information. So instead of linking to a guide, try to talk to the author of the guide and see if (s)he will permit copying it here. A link might be better than nothing though.

You should not include information that will remove the joy of discovery for players on MUME. For example, do not post this kind of information:

* Hidden door names
* Output from the identify spell
* Detailed information about how and where to get legendary equipment
* Detailed maps of new/remote/contested areas (detailed maps of cities are fine)

So how I see it is that there can be a world map. Small enough to just see the area mume rooms cover. Quite like the old map here on mume.org website
It needs to be updated anyway! And when you click on the cities you can see a detailed city map. I think it even doesn't matter who's maps you take as template if you redraw them? You can just add the credits later like: "Based on Rik's maps".

So two things are sure: Small world map is allowed and detailed city maps are allowed. If there is a need in the future for more detailed area maps, then you can still draw them and link with the small, base map.

[Erondil]

Nice work, is this Rik's work and where could it be found?

The basic idea is nearly the same, the different to my map is that I drew a colored middel earth map with sea and so on, which has frayed border and based on a black background, I thought it should look old or battered.

If we can use the map which you show here without problems, why the map should not be used?

[Ortansia]

Indeed more feedbacks needed :p .

concerning rik maps , you can find them on his sitweb : http://mume.kyrania.com/
username : mume
password: maps

Just whois rik on mume ,you will find his email there and the name of his characters :p . Send him a mail and ask him how he got copyright :p

[Freyja]

Nice work, is this Rik's work and where could it be found?

The basic idea is nearly the same, the different to my map is that I drew a colored middle earth map with sea and so on, which has frayed border and based on a black background, I thought it should look old or battered.

If we can use the map which you show here without problems, why the map should not be used?

The map I posted is located here: http://mume.org/mume.php from the *old* web page. I'm not sure who did it. But as it's on the official page, it should give an idea what can be revealed. I wish that someone from the management to show more interest in this thread and comment the map drawing idea.

But then again who told you that the map or any map can not be used? I think it's some misunderstanding. It's a fact that the new page needs a new map

[Erondil]

Thank you Freyja and Ortansia for your help.

I find the map on the MUME-site, if this size is ok I will cut out a similar part of my map, which I will use.

Berdo was right Rik's maps are really great, so I wrote a mail to Rik where I asked him to join us, if he won't I asked him for the licence to use and change his maps for the map section.

If I'm honest I wish too that someone of the management show some interest in this thread.

[Ortansia]

It would be great , If someone is coordinating redesign efforts :p .
Unfortunatly I can't post again my ideas . I lost everythinging when the last thread was auto-deleted :/

[Freyja]

It would be great , If someone is coordinating redesign efforts :p .
Unfortunatly I can't post again my ideas . I lost everythinging when the last thread was auto-deleted :/

Eww, thats bad news Ortansia. How come you don't have the original files on your hdisk? Sad, sad...

[Ortansia]

I was having some link problems , so I formated my pc to fix it but I forgot to backup some of my stuffs :/ ...
No big deal , I will work on it again , I just need some times ...

[Ilie]

I don't want to make too many "it needs to look like this or that" statements. I belive in letting this be up to you, whoever you are, who want to contribute to the page. The design should not be set in stone, if we later think of a way to improve it, we should.

As for maps: I think the maps on Rik's site reveal a bit too much information to be put on the official page, they contain names of hidden doors and show pretty much exactly how all rooms are connected. They also look computer generated. Very good for following and using, but not really setting an atmosphere perhaps?

In cities we should be able to draw a map that shows how the rooms are connected without looking as if it was made by a mapper program - that is my hope at least. Outside of the cities, we shouldn't show all room connections, we should show where roads/rivers go, and a rough terrain guide. Important trails should be included.. i.e. the map should hopefully look like something people who lived in middle earth would make.

[Freyja]

I think the map should not reveal any indoor rooms (caves, tunnels, Moria), like a flyover of MUME Arda. If it has more revealed geography than there are rooms in-game, there should be a clear line between the actual rooms and whatever there may be around it. Maybe the areas that exist in-game are colored etc.

I did Anduin Vale map for the bear page long ago. It's not the best example, but it has the flyover idea.
http://mume.freyja.pri.ee/bears/anduinmap.jpg

[Erondil]

Right from the start it was clear that the maps will not reveal any secrets, door-name, hidden doors, areas behind hidden doors, indoor areas and so on, only basic stuff will be shown. Maybe east of neni only few rooms north and south from the great east road should be shown and maybe no maps from Noc, Zoc and Warrens becaue the dark side is for experienced players.

The maps have two duties

1. Give the newbies a little clue how big MUME is and help them to start to explore areas buy their own.
2. Help newbies (people) find their way if they get lost.

Therefore the maps have to be well drawn and easy to read. Rik's maps are both and it is easier to remove some detail form the maps as to draw new on, and we get the OK from Rik if we mention that the maps base on Gefe and his work.

[velgular]

Since the old thread decayed, I'll post again that I run a web development company, and have loads of experience doing most any kind of development. So the structure of the site itself can be done in a matter of hours once the decisions about design are made.

[Elmir]

I actually _tried_ to make a "newbie map" of Fornost. I figured the only way to make it work is to make it in semi 3d.

I tried making one out of Fornost and Old Fornost, I succeeded, but it took a lot of work. Any ideas how to make maps for newbies without revealing too much? I'm more than willing to help. Just that the 3d map of it all just... Takes about 12 hours to sketch it

[Ortansia]

Sorry I can't help much concerning drawing part :p
Maybe just put in map only what newbies needs like for example shops / rooms where some goodies loads ( equipments , Food .. ect) ??

Btw just by curiosity which program do you use to create the map? :p

[Timodeus]

The one Freyja posted is along the lines of what I thought about when I proposed "drawn maps" on the er-thread. As long as it is not an exact representation of MUME's rooms (and secrets/indoors-stuff) it could even be more detailed.

Again, if it contains something a traveller with a notepad would draw while travelling from Bree to Fornost (he won't go IN the forest he sees, but he could draw the forest) I would be very fine.