Survey: World problems

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Sung
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:48 pm
Location: Tampere, Finland

Survey: World problems

Post by Sung »

This thread is intended as an interactive alternative to the (overflowing) bug board, with focus on rooms and zone design (not C-code, objects or mobiles, please stay on topic). Also keep in mind that the discussion is public so do not reveal game secrets.

Most of all I'd like to hear about world problems that you may have gotten accustomed to, but which should be fixed to enhance playerkilling or to make the game more friendly to newer players. Some examples of what I'm looking for:
  • - Unrealistic and unfair death traps (by design or accident)
    - Places where sudden zone reset can be fatal (rooms that lock you in with a highlevel mob, for example)
    - Faulty flags (rooms which are unexpectedly portable or nonportable; doors with unrealistic locks/noblock/nobash/nobreak).
-- Sung the Arata of Zones
Kalev
Vala (Mudller)
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Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Kalev »

I can immediately think of two examples where zone reset can lock you in with aggressive mobs (there's a small chance that those have already been fixed because I haven't played much lately):
1) Tharbad chief
2) room with two wraiths at strange black helmet zone near hillmen

If possible, I think it would make sense if those areas didn't pop if someone is in those specific rooms.
Razoor
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:20 am

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Razoor »

I think it'd be nice if someone fixed the bug so that you can bash blocks on nobash doors, such as Moria gate for example.

Also, make all doors pickable and blockable even if they are 'bushes'? :)
Sung
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Location: Tampere, Finland

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Sung »

Kalev wrote:I can immediately think of two examples where zone reset can lock you in with aggressive mobs (there's a small chance that those have already been fixed because I haven't played much lately):
1) Tharbad chief
2) room with two wraiths at strange black helmet zone near hillmen
1) Didn't seem broken to me, maybe it was fixed earlier
2) Fixed
Fixed undead chieftains too since someone bugreported it.
Razoor wrote:I think it'd be nice if someone fixed the bug so that you can bash blocks on nobash doors, such as Moria gate for example.

Also, make all doors pickable and blockable even if they are 'bushes'? :)
I'll ask around whether it's a bug or a feature first.
Maybe a new drui^H^H cleric spell that grows vegetation to the latter effect would be useful...
-- Sung the Arata of Zones
Timodeus
Arata
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Location: Germany

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Timodeus »

Razoor wrote:Also, make all doors pickable and blockable even if they are 'bushes'? :)
a) How do you want to pick a "bush"? ;)

b) As general guideline for you to tell when an exit should or should not be block-, bash-, or breakable (to tell BUG from FEATURE before you post ;):
- Exits you cannot block are not solid or stable by themselves (as brushes, twigs, branches, thornbushes, curtains, tentflaps, ...). Any door that has a fairly limited border where edges connect is magically blockable (examples: 'bark', 'tree', or a 'rock' that connects to a rockface). Consider that doors have two sides. An exit is blockable when one side of it is (e.g. twigs/trapdoor or thornbushes/tree).
- Exits that you cannot bash are generally ones too heavy to bash down (well, that is what the message says). You can probably bash most other doors, and you can also 'bash' holes in a bush or a similar obstruction.
- Exits you cannot break are usually (!) ones that are typically somewhat magical. You should also be able to scramble loose rocks or shatter bushes with the spell 'break door'.

Note that technical limitations may exist (mudlle).
Iluvator
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Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Iluvator »

I don't disagree with the guidelines, but it is rather annoying that you can not bash a block off a nobash exit. Currently, if a door is nobash, the only way to remove a block on it is with the break spell since any bash attempt on the door is not recognized (examples of this are altarstone at dunland vellum or greatdoor at Moria egate). While the door itself might not be bashable, breaking the magical hold on it should be.
Indigo
Posts: 34
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Location: Arizona

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Indigo »

Kalev wrote:I can immediately think of two examples where zone reset can lock you in with aggressive mobs (there's a small chance that those have already been fixed because I haven't played much lately):
1) Tharbad chief
2) room with two wraiths at strange black helmet zone near hillmen

If possible, I think it would make sense if those areas didn't pop if someone is in those specific rooms.
I never had an issue with the Chief, the door is bashable, and its supposed to be a smob. The SBH area Id agree with however.
Kenzu
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Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Kenzu »

Iluvator wrote:I don't disagree with the guidelines, but it is rather annoying that you can not bash a block off a nobash exit. Currently, if a door is nobash, the only way to remove a block on it is with the break spell since any bash attempt on the door is not recognized (examples of this are altarstone at dunland vellum or greatdoor at Moria egate). While the door itself might not be bashable, breaking the magical hold on it should be.
I think this is the main problem most of us are encountering... Nobash doors, when blocked, pretty much stay blocked until spell drops unless a cleric or Shaman is around.

I consider it a bug that 7 mobiles can be engaged on a player, but only 4 players. While I understand the reasons for this, it is rather bothersome to die because of mobiles engaged and suddenly your wimpy doesn't trigger from being below the number...

Or maybe, attempting to flee, and "cha wimpy to hps below current hps" = flee off...?

-Kenzu
Armies of the West:
Ambassador, Antar, Ardent, Arrogance, Earand, Furor, Gennessie, Greed, Kessfare, Lief, Schmidt, Vulpine

Forces of the Dark Lord:
Braddock, Gloomer, Inhale, Massacre, Perfection, Scary, Serpentor, Shriek, Tomax, Wridush
Razoor
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:20 am

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Razoor »

Timodeus wrote:a) How do you want to pick a "bush"? ;)

You dont, but it'd surely be a whole lot more fun for PK. Really, it's not THAT bad...just a tiny little change..*blinks*
Last edited by Jahara on Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed quote
Mhoghedin
Posts: 39
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:12 am

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Mhoghedin »

Well damn, if I knew it was a bug...I've mobdied at that SBH place as Nhorhash a while ago, think I can get a reimb? :?:
Formerly a dastardly pirate of the Western Sea, he now contents
himself with rowing around the Greyflood of Tharbad in a canoe.
Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Over 1000 whities have been sent to Davey Jones' Locker.
filk
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:18 pm

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by filk »

I know 2 places which are nopick,nobreak and no keys from and only 2 or 3 people in Mume now how to enter.
1) White tower 2 zones east of harlond (gh).
2) Isengard
Sung
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:48 pm
Location: Tampere, Finland

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Sung »

Mhoghedin wrote:Well damn, if I knew it was a bug...I've mobdied at that SBH place as Nhorhash a while ago, think I can get a reimb? :?:
"rules reimbursement policy"

- Regeneration of a Zone leading to Death

Scenario: While exploring a Zone, it regenerates, the mobiles subsequently killing X (eg. locked in a room with large group of aggressive mobs).
Verdict: No Reimbursement.
Reason: Since these can be predicted, they are avoidable.

Subset: If it can be shown that an immortal was to blame for the regeneration (eg. it regenned 4 mins after the last regen) then a full reimbursement will be shown. HOWEVER, don't assume this is the case unless you have evidence!
-- Sung the Arata of Zones
heigo
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 1:41 pm

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by heigo »

Not sure if this wasn't intentional, but another place you can get locked in with nasty mobs due to the zone pop would be Unqalómë.
haunga
Posts: 20
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:35 am

Old forest and more

Post by haunga »

I think it has claimed quite a few lives due to trees popping when you have just killed them and are are finishing off the roots. It's more about luck since there is no way to tell when the "pop" will occur.

As far as I know roots stay aggressive after you attack them. Least that could be done is to change that so there's at least a possibility to flee when the trees come back. Also this would make it a little easier for low level players when their only option is to either sit there for a long time and wait for someone to come and help them or try their luck with the roots.

Also. I think the necromancers door should either get its name changed. Or made breakable by spell. The current name does not really fit its properties.

There used to be guards in Isengard that told you that they will not open the gate for you. I think every time I've checked recently there is nobody on the other side.

Rivendell is unaccessible by darkies. As far as anyone knows anyway. If there is a way then it's obviously too hard for anyone to figure out.
I think there should be a quest given by the Great Goblin that would through a long process and huge effort allow darkie players to enter Rivendell for a certain amount of time.

Those sword shards lying around everywhere? What's up with those? I heard it is an unfinished quest. Why are larger pieces in harder to access areas? Just a thought.

About the last two. If there are things that seem impossible then people will not bother to solve them. Especially if everyone else says it is not possible. Just how many quests are there in MUME that no mortal player has never done? Are there any? I think this topic should be cleared a little.
Syd
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Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Syd »

I actually just mobbed my bn to this bug, Sung, because I was doing 'patch' inside Tharbad sewers, which loads picked and two spirits are inside. It repopped while I was doing, and I mobbed. Any chance of a reimb? I died like 4 times over the course of the past 5 years on that damn room! :P If not, fixing it would make me happy too, thanks mate.



EDIT: I just read your response, I don't have a log so there's no way for me to prove it :(
Sung
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Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Sung »

filk wrote:I know 2 places which are nopick,nobreak and no keys from and only 2 or 3 people in Mume now how to enter.
1) White tower 2 zones east of harlond (gh).
2) Isengard
You really aren't supposed to enter those places; if you know a way, please let me know on the bug board or send a message. Sounds like a rumour though.
heigo wrote:Not sure if this wasn't intentional, but another place you can get locked in with nasty mobs due to the zone pop would be Unqalómë.
My view is that smobs should be a bit unpredictable. Better be in a group and prepared for the pop. Same goes for Necromancer and Old Forest roots as mentioned by Haunga, I'd say.
Syd wrote:I actually just mobbed my bn to this bug, Sung, because I was doing 'patch' inside Tharbad sewers, which loads picked and two spirits are inside.
Here, however, it seems more likely that a solo player gets stuck inside without expecting it. Fixed this door.
-- Sung the Arata of Zones
Elestir
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Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Elestir »

Most of these repop problems would be solved, if some special message showed shortly before the actual repop. (30 secs?)
Something like: "You have a ticklish sensation."

Also people who would enter the zone which is about to repop in less than those 30 secs would get this (or some other) special message.
Rogon
Posts: 158
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 4:49 pm

Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Rogon »

Is there any negative side effects to letting people know a zone is about to respawn? Otherwise messages a few seconds in advance is not a horrible idea :)

They could depend somewhat on zone align and your race.

It'd be interesting with something like 'You feel a cold shiver running down your spine.' in old fornost shortly before zone respawn for example. Or well, maybe messages that are not forced emotions, but you get my point!
Caerroil
Bug Hunter
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Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Caerroil »

For normal zones I can't come up with any negative effects from making some kind of message very shortly before the zone reset, if it could be customized for subzones (if there is anything like that) so much better. For more special zones like smob zones no warning would be just fine, not that many smob zones pop while people are in them though.
I very much like that it could be based on race and alignment, then one could let orcs know when slag zone is about to pop but not whities and similarly (but reversed) for Bree and so on.
Elemmakil
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Re: Survey: World problems

Post by Elemmakil »

About a noblock door: Howdy or Smooth's LH outside of Tbad (right next to Farmer BLack's) is nobreak.

Very annoying =(
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