It is clear based on this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=943, that MUME needs new leaders. The current amount of management that has code level access and desire to do so seems limited at best, based on the past few years of experience. This is something that the player base has known and seen for a while, and something surely management has too. Why has management not made an effort to groom new leaders, new coders, or post help wanted to fill this gap? If they have, why haven't the players been made aware they are looking? Does management selfishly hold onto their creation despite the fact it has grown stagnant due to lack of interest among current high ranking management persons?
I understand MUDs are not the latest and greatest, but there are plenty of them out there right now with very active management. Just because 3D games and MMOs have come along to the scene doesn't mean MUME cannot have active management, new skills, new classes, new races, tweaks to existing ones (hello killing the thief class then going AWOL?), and so on.
I'm sure among our still respectably large player base there are those individuals who are adept at coding. If a HELP WANTED call was put out, someone WILL step forward. Someone ALWAYS steps forward to take the torch, but only if it is offered.
So I ask, I implore, as a player of MUME since '99, to our management - Do not let MUME die the slow and stagnant death. Man up, let someone else control your creation. I know it is not easy. Remain a presence in the background, to guide the those who would take on this noble task. But please, I implore you, your players love this game and certainly from among them some will rise to remedy the current lack of active management but ONLY IF YOU GIVE THEM A CHANCE to do so.
How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
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The posts in this forum should be related to MUME.
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
First of all, I agree with pinion in the fact that it does seem like high-ranking Mume management is way to quiet. But here's a thought that came to me...
The posts that have been coming up regarding this issue (which I undoubtedly have taken part in) cannot in any way be encouraging for those Ainur that do work their butts off on a consistent basis (You know who you are..). At the heart of pinion's post, I hear someone that truly wants to see Mume thrive amidst a (correct me if I am wrong) steadily declining playerbase. However, sometimes comments that are made while communicating this can be hurtful to those that are giving of their time. (I believe I made a "patronizing speech" comment regarding the "recent changes, bright future ahead" thread which I know regret)
Inadvertently, we could be discouraging the ones that are the only driving force behind any changes in the future. If I have done this, I am man enough to say I am sorry.
Having said that, I think the issue (as always) falls back on communication. If its a situation where top level management doesn't have time for mume, let Mume know publicly and tell them what the plan is to remedy that. Even if the plan is to not do anything, say anything, or communicate whatsoever, let us know.
I hope this is all well received. Its weird for me to think about it this way, but Mume means a lot to a lot of people. It is a part of their lives that they have invested countless hours to. We just don't want to be left in the dark...
Harrell
The posts that have been coming up regarding this issue (which I undoubtedly have taken part in) cannot in any way be encouraging for those Ainur that do work their butts off on a consistent basis (You know who you are..). At the heart of pinion's post, I hear someone that truly wants to see Mume thrive amidst a (correct me if I am wrong) steadily declining playerbase. However, sometimes comments that are made while communicating this can be hurtful to those that are giving of their time. (I believe I made a "patronizing speech" comment regarding the "recent changes, bright future ahead" thread which I know regret)
Inadvertently, we could be discouraging the ones that are the only driving force behind any changes in the future. If I have done this, I am man enough to say I am sorry.
Having said that, I think the issue (as always) falls back on communication. If its a situation where top level management doesn't have time for mume, let Mume know publicly and tell them what the plan is to remedy that. Even if the plan is to not do anything, say anything, or communicate whatsoever, let us know.
I hope this is all well received. Its weird for me to think about it this way, but Mume means a lot to a lot of people. It is a part of their lives that they have invested countless hours to. We just don't want to be left in the dark...
Harrell
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
A large part of this text was written before the forum broke down. 
----
It is funny how things go. I have written quite a few similar posts over the last years. Believe me, I can understand the reasons for that and on of the core-reasons is that MUME is a very nice project that should life on.
I have always complained about the lack of communication and information and attempt to do "better". Just... I am not entirely sure what to write and communicate now but I'll make a crude attempt. You have been warned.
First of all it like to address this:
"Why has management not made an effort to groom new leaders, new coders, or post help wanted to fill this gap?"
That's wrong. They did. Not everytime when things go wrong it is "managements" (let's say the A+ part for now) fault. New people got promoted into the positions that are needed and people did get access to code (what do you mean? Mudlle or C? probably the second).
Personally, I think it took too long until the things above happend but eventually they *did* happen. Now, the problem is not much (fixing bugs usually isn't visible) came from that (more people with code) but that has partly to do with RL-issues of the people involved. I'm not going to judge or comment that, I just say you cannot blame "management" (in this case the people who give out the access needed) here.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying "everything is fine". Personally I'd rather see Implementors buzzing around like busy bees, thinking of a nice - sometimes smaller, sometimes bigger - additions or fixes or tweaks per week (or at least every two weeks). Of course I'd like to see more "global" additions and changes (e.g. fixing the broken skills or … any of the other ideas that are flying around for a long time) happening.
Now for something positive: We do have quite some development in one aspect: The creation of new zones. I heard a lot of stuff like "Meh, but that's only new areas, new mobs, new objects. MUME is already big enough, where are the other changes?" and have to say: Creation of new zones is not "just" new zones. It is what MUME is mostly about, it is about Middle Earth and being able to run around in it. Personally, I think that's good and even if things are not perfect it is nice to see one branch still works very, very nicely (note: I agree all those plains-zones were a bad idea. We learned from that, the newly started projects won't feature more of those open "plains" as east of Lorien etc).
Why zones "take so long" for "just a couple of rooms" is a different matter this thread isn't about.
As for addressing "Why didn't they post HELP WANTED"?
Dreadful truth: Not anyone wants to is able to help. I mean from a technical AND social standpoint. It also needs dedication and time and trust me: People saying "Yeah, I want to contribute" is by no means a proof they actually do it once they got a task. If you'd ask for help and give out stuff to people who claim they'd do it you'd end up with more dead projects than you could count within a month.
And this does not even include "abuse" or "stupidity“ regarding the access you got.
Getting help regarding coding is a really tricky thing since the people who help must be a) good enough at coding, b) has enough RL-time and c) is trustworthy and responsible and you cannot expect to just ask and find someone who meets those three requirements.
I'm not sure if something like "outsourcing" could work, to be honest. But I think a coder needs to know what he is actually doing or the code won't do what it is supposed to do. And here the things you can "just" utsource safely to people you don't really know get less and less.
Also, you need people to "design" and write up stuff before you can „outsource“. Therefore, you don't only need "coders" who are willing and able to do stuff, you'll also need someone to write it up complete enough that someone who does not have the complete picture can code it. It also must get tested afterwards.
This is not a reason "outsourcing" could not work, it just says "outsourcing" has limits and isn't the perfect solution as it might sound.
But again, my message is: Things could be better but... maybe it isn't as bad as it may seem.
If you are concerned about MUME and think you are capable of advancing it... get an immortal and try to start building. Sometimes there are not much projects (currently we have free testzones and nearly all people who wanted to work on a real zone got the chance to do that, btw) and you might be a coder who has not a good grasp on writing rooms etc, but the only chance for MUME to survive is when people on *all* layers of building try to do their best. Advancing the game isn't only about the Imps (who currently are not buzzing bees), but also about all the people who show interest (from room-writing Mc to I) and dedication. I know for sure there sure there are caring and working people on all other layers (Mc to at least A) - and to be fair, I also think one I "cares" as well, just in a different way than you might expect it (I'm not going into my personal interpretations on that issue but I am pretty sure pointing a finger in a certain direction and screaming "lazy fat-ass" isn't fair and probably misses the truth).
To address another common complaint: „People who are no creative writers but who are good coders are forced to write a bazillion stupid rooms before they can start to work, therefore, they quit“. This is only true in parts.
First: noone expects you to write a zone that „blows away your mind“ when walking in it and reading the descs. Personally I think that everyone who thinks to be a good coder should also be able to come up with a nicely planned layout of a zone or at least a general plan. That's an abstract planning-issue... a coder should be able to handle that. The descriptions come later. Yes, if you are no writer this is a hard part. But noone expects you to be a very good writer, a zone is not only about it's descs. It is perfectly fine to create some average descriptions and you'll also have the help of a proofreader later, so this task (100 roomdescs of 3 to 5 lines, that's some 350 to 550 lines all in all) should be possible for anyone to write – here comes the catch – if he's willing to actually WORK on MUME. Coding is also work, by the way. Then there is the „technical stuff“: Doors, custom mudlle effects, loading of mobiles and objects... I guess a coder should be able to handle stuff like that with ease – or, other way around, if he does not he does not have the excuse it's „creative writing work I just cannot do; I'm more the technical guy“.
Second: Working on a zone gives you much insight on how creating and plannung stuff on a MUD works. Either from a technical (commands, typical limitations in code and game mechanics) point of view but also from a design-point-of view: Is it actually smart to create a super-strong mob that blinds and sleeps the entire group when they enter? Forcing people to think about that BEFORE they actually have the chance to put the mob-dt in on their own seems like a good idea.
Third: Let's face the truth: There are a lot of unreliable people around. They may have good intentions but they still are unreliable (or unable). There must be SOME way to find out if people belong to the able, the unable (dedication without the needed skill is next to useless), or the unreliable (the greatest skill without dedication is also useless).
Making people building a zone has advantages and disadvantages. Everyone knows that. But in the conclusion I think it is a rather good test, that tests quite a few important things. And, yes, I know this is only true when things are „working“ as they should (e.g. if no supervisors are there things break down).
Conclusion (finally, you say?):
But more importantly: If you like MUME, play it. Find ways to *enjoy* it, be it level-grinding or something else (imho MUME lacks in "social players" at the moment), hell, use MUME as "advanced chat system" with your RL-buddies, as replacement for ICQ or whatever while your chars fool around in GH... but USE and PLAY it.
Tell other people about it, friends as well as internet forums (how many *serious* attempts to promote MUME more have you undertaken, I ask?). Get people to install mappers and help configure their client if the learning curve is too high for some GH- and Bree-xp. Start small contests who collects more honeycombs or whatever, just find a way to enjoy what already is there (since that it is a lot). Advance the wiki and be active on the forum. If you are a coder who cannot write descs, help to write some modern client or help with a modern website.
In the end - this is true for „building“ on the game as immortal as well as „playing“ is as mortal - it is all about the many, many small things that add up.
---
Well, the thing about communication... here is something but I'm not sure if it served any purpose or if you learned something new from it. Are you as smart as before? Will things change in some way? Did all this have a purpose?
To be honest I have no idea. But at least I try. To advance the game as well as doing something about one other issue I have been complaining about.
----
It is funny how things go. I have written quite a few similar posts over the last years. Believe me, I can understand the reasons for that and on of the core-reasons is that MUME is a very nice project that should life on.
I have always complained about the lack of communication and information and attempt to do "better". Just... I am not entirely sure what to write and communicate now but I'll make a crude attempt. You have been warned.
First of all it like to address this:
"Why has management not made an effort to groom new leaders, new coders, or post help wanted to fill this gap?"
That's wrong. They did. Not everytime when things go wrong it is "managements" (let's say the A+ part for now) fault. New people got promoted into the positions that are needed and people did get access to code (what do you mean? Mudlle or C? probably the second).
Personally, I think it took too long until the things above happend but eventually they *did* happen. Now, the problem is not much (fixing bugs usually isn't visible) came from that (more people with code) but that has partly to do with RL-issues of the people involved. I'm not going to judge or comment that, I just say you cannot blame "management" (in this case the people who give out the access needed) here.
Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying "everything is fine". Personally I'd rather see Implementors buzzing around like busy bees, thinking of a nice - sometimes smaller, sometimes bigger - additions or fixes or tweaks per week (or at least every two weeks). Of course I'd like to see more "global" additions and changes (e.g. fixing the broken skills or … any of the other ideas that are flying around for a long time) happening.
Now for something positive: We do have quite some development in one aspect: The creation of new zones. I heard a lot of stuff like "Meh, but that's only new areas, new mobs, new objects. MUME is already big enough, where are the other changes?" and have to say: Creation of new zones is not "just" new zones. It is what MUME is mostly about, it is about Middle Earth and being able to run around in it. Personally, I think that's good and even if things are not perfect it is nice to see one branch still works very, very nicely (note: I agree all those plains-zones were a bad idea. We learned from that, the newly started projects won't feature more of those open "plains" as east of Lorien etc).
Why zones "take so long" for "just a couple of rooms" is a different matter this thread isn't about.
As for addressing "Why didn't they post HELP WANTED"?
Dreadful truth: Not anyone wants to is able to help. I mean from a technical AND social standpoint. It also needs dedication and time and trust me: People saying "Yeah, I want to contribute" is by no means a proof they actually do it once they got a task. If you'd ask for help and give out stuff to people who claim they'd do it you'd end up with more dead projects than you could count within a month.
And this does not even include "abuse" or "stupidity“ regarding the access you got.
Getting help regarding coding is a really tricky thing since the people who help must be a) good enough at coding, b) has enough RL-time and c) is trustworthy and responsible and you cannot expect to just ask and find someone who meets those three requirements.
I'm not sure if something like "outsourcing" could work, to be honest. But I think a coder needs to know what he is actually doing or the code won't do what it is supposed to do. And here the things you can "just" utsource safely to people you don't really know get less and less.
Also, you need people to "design" and write up stuff before you can „outsource“. Therefore, you don't only need "coders" who are willing and able to do stuff, you'll also need someone to write it up complete enough that someone who does not have the complete picture can code it. It also must get tested afterwards.
This is not a reason "outsourcing" could not work, it just says "outsourcing" has limits and isn't the perfect solution as it might sound.
But again, my message is: Things could be better but... maybe it isn't as bad as it may seem.
If you are concerned about MUME and think you are capable of advancing it... get an immortal and try to start building. Sometimes there are not much projects (currently we have free testzones and nearly all people who wanted to work on a real zone got the chance to do that, btw) and you might be a coder who has not a good grasp on writing rooms etc, but the only chance for MUME to survive is when people on *all* layers of building try to do their best. Advancing the game isn't only about the Imps (who currently are not buzzing bees), but also about all the people who show interest (from room-writing Mc to I) and dedication. I know for sure there sure there are caring and working people on all other layers (Mc to at least A) - and to be fair, I also think one I "cares" as well, just in a different way than you might expect it (I'm not going into my personal interpretations on that issue but I am pretty sure pointing a finger in a certain direction and screaming "lazy fat-ass" isn't fair and probably misses the truth).
To address another common complaint: „People who are no creative writers but who are good coders are forced to write a bazillion stupid rooms before they can start to work, therefore, they quit“. This is only true in parts.
First: noone expects you to write a zone that „blows away your mind“ when walking in it and reading the descs. Personally I think that everyone who thinks to be a good coder should also be able to come up with a nicely planned layout of a zone or at least a general plan. That's an abstract planning-issue... a coder should be able to handle that. The descriptions come later. Yes, if you are no writer this is a hard part. But noone expects you to be a very good writer, a zone is not only about it's descs. It is perfectly fine to create some average descriptions and you'll also have the help of a proofreader later, so this task (100 roomdescs of 3 to 5 lines, that's some 350 to 550 lines all in all) should be possible for anyone to write – here comes the catch – if he's willing to actually WORK on MUME. Coding is also work, by the way. Then there is the „technical stuff“: Doors, custom mudlle effects, loading of mobiles and objects... I guess a coder should be able to handle stuff like that with ease – or, other way around, if he does not he does not have the excuse it's „creative writing work I just cannot do; I'm more the technical guy“.
Second: Working on a zone gives you much insight on how creating and plannung stuff on a MUD works. Either from a technical (commands, typical limitations in code and game mechanics) point of view but also from a design-point-of view: Is it actually smart to create a super-strong mob that blinds and sleeps the entire group when they enter? Forcing people to think about that BEFORE they actually have the chance to put the mob-dt in on their own seems like a good idea.
Third: Let's face the truth: There are a lot of unreliable people around. They may have good intentions but they still are unreliable (or unable). There must be SOME way to find out if people belong to the able, the unable (dedication without the needed skill is next to useless), or the unreliable (the greatest skill without dedication is also useless).
Making people building a zone has advantages and disadvantages. Everyone knows that. But in the conclusion I think it is a rather good test, that tests quite a few important things. And, yes, I know this is only true when things are „working“ as they should (e.g. if no supervisors are there things break down).
Conclusion (finally, you say?
): But more importantly: If you like MUME, play it. Find ways to *enjoy* it, be it level-grinding or something else (imho MUME lacks in "social players" at the moment), hell, use MUME as "advanced chat system" with your RL-buddies, as replacement for ICQ or whatever while your chars fool around in GH... but USE and PLAY it.
Tell other people about it, friends as well as internet forums (how many *serious* attempts to promote MUME more have you undertaken, I ask?). Get people to install mappers and help configure their client if the learning curve is too high for some GH- and Bree-xp. Start small contests who collects more honeycombs or whatever, just find a way to enjoy what already is there (since that it is a lot). Advance the wiki and be active on the forum. If you are a coder who cannot write descs, help to write some modern client or help with a modern website.
In the end - this is true for „building“ on the game as immortal as well as „playing“ is as mortal - it is all about the many, many small things that add up.
---
Well, the thing about communication... here is something but I'm not sure if it served any purpose or if you learned something new from it. Are you as smart as before? Will things change in some way? Did all this have a purpose?
To be honest I have no idea. But at least I try. To advance the game as well as doing something about one other issue I have been complaining about.
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
First of all, I would like to thank Timodeus for addressing this the way he did. I know for a fact that your dedication and hard work in mume has made a difference and you continue to help/encourage others to stay motivated and committed on a very consistent basis.
If there are just a couple things I can reiterate to the rest of you, I would like to first encourage all those who want to help to complete the Istari quest and create an immortal. Obviously, our actions speak louder than our words, and having an immortal that is actively contributing speaks volumes. Perhaps the question to ask shouldn't be "Why is top management so inactive?"... but posssibly "How can we create such a work-horse with lower level gods that the top management has to be active?"
I personally am still very new to immortal, but I have found it extremely fulfilling and enjoyable thus far.
It has also been very helpful in allowing me to see first-hand the management roles that are active and the contributions that are being made on a consistent basis, whereas beforehand I had a somewhat skewed view of that situation.
Second, I think the final few ideas listed by Timodeus are HUGE. You don't have to be an immortal to be a leader in mume. If you find writing room descriptions is not your thing, find a creative way to be a mortal who encourages growth. Create and organize newbie account contests, have leveling races, get friends to log on (and enjoy it!) even if they never are able to get to legend levels.
I won't attempt to repeat anything else that was already stated by Timodeus, but I would just encourage everyone to not worry so much about grooming the new leaders of mume, but step up and be the new leaders of mume. That is, at least, what I will be striving for...
Phloxy
If there are just a couple things I can reiterate to the rest of you, I would like to first encourage all those who want to help to complete the Istari quest and create an immortal. Obviously, our actions speak louder than our words, and having an immortal that is actively contributing speaks volumes. Perhaps the question to ask shouldn't be "Why is top management so inactive?"... but posssibly "How can we create such a work-horse with lower level gods that the top management has to be active?"
I personally am still very new to immortal, but I have found it extremely fulfilling and enjoyable thus far.
It has also been very helpful in allowing me to see first-hand the management roles that are active and the contributions that are being made on a consistent basis, whereas beforehand I had a somewhat skewed view of that situation. Second, I think the final few ideas listed by Timodeus are HUGE. You don't have to be an immortal to be a leader in mume. If you find writing room descriptions is not your thing, find a creative way to be a mortal who encourages growth. Create and organize newbie account contests, have leveling races, get friends to log on (and enjoy it!) even if they never are able to get to legend levels.
I won't attempt to repeat anything else that was already stated by Timodeus, but I would just encourage everyone to not worry so much about grooming the new leaders of mume, but step up and be the new leaders of mume. That is, at least, what I will be striving for...
Phloxy
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
Thank you Timodeus for the detailed and insightful reply.
I have nothing but respect for both the past and present leaders of MUME be it from the zone creators to the implementers. In time hopefully the "changes" that were so spoken of can come to pass and we can see new content and maybe a new version of MUME. There is a great deal of spark and life left in her yet, I think, and MUME will live on for a long time.
I have nothing but respect for both the past and present leaders of MUME be it from the zone creators to the implementers. In time hopefully the "changes" that were so spoken of can come to pass and we can see new content and maybe a new version of MUME. There is a great deal of spark and life left in her yet, I think, and MUME will live on for a long time.
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
In my personal experience it is that even with the ability to make changes the lower level ranked gods still do not have the power to add the changes to the game.
As Timodeus mentioned people have varying levels of available time that they are willing to devote to this game. Coincidentally, it also so happens that lower ranked gods tend to have more time than higher ranked ones which allows them to get a lot of work done. However, when the higher-ranked gods begin to only show up once a month this then forces the people with more time to then make decisions of their own in order to be productive. This often results in unused work which begins the mental cycle of 'why bother if it won't be used' which then leads to further inactivity.
It doesn't matter if we have access. It's the lack of executive decisions and direction that is killing us.
As Timodeus mentioned people have varying levels of available time that they are willing to devote to this game. Coincidentally, it also so happens that lower ranked gods tend to have more time than higher ranked ones which allows them to get a lot of work done. However, when the higher-ranked gods begin to only show up once a month this then forces the people with more time to then make decisions of their own in order to be productive. This often results in unused work which begins the mental cycle of 'why bother if it won't be used' which then leads to further inactivity.
It doesn't matter if we have access. It's the lack of executive decisions and direction that is killing us.
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
Not true. Getting executive "descisions" isn't the issue. Getting a coder with high-level-access to actually put it in is. So, if you just need a descision and actually have a Vm who'll code your thingie (they can do quite something with mudlle) you are fine.It's the lack of executive decisions and direction that is killing us.
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
One could argue that giving coders this high-level access is also a kind of executive decision.Timodeus wrote:Getting executive "descisions" isn't the issue. Getting a coder with high-level-access to actually put it in is.
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
As always, I preface this with that I am still very new compared to most...
One thought I had (please don't shoot me) is for someone to compile a (quarterly... yearly even?) "census" if you will, of all ainur that currently take an active part in furthering mume. (this would include everyone from M all the way up to I). The wizlist could be revised to serve as this, but it would need to be reformatted quite a bit.
Associated with their name could be a type of rating, based on their level of involvement or the amount of time dedicated. Some examples off the cuff might be.
1. Intensely involved on a regual basis (giving between 30-60+ hours a week to furthering mume),
2. Actively involved on a regular basis (giving between 15-30 hours a week to furthering mume),
3. Moderately involved on a regular basas (giving between 5-15 hours a week to furthering mume),
4. Mostly inactive (giving between 0-5 hours a week to furthering mume),
I originally thought about the rating actually being coded into your amount of time logged, but I know this can be skewed by either idlers or by the fact that much work for mume is done while not logged. For this I figured it might be better if everyone were allowed to allocate their own rating. If no rating was listed, it would by default be "Mostly Inactive".
In an attempt to be objective, I thought I might add some pros and cons to this.
Pros:
- It would provide an updated, accurate depiction of who is (or is able to for that matter) giving of their time to mume
- It would provide baseline information regarding what parts of the "chain of implementation steps" are working, what parts are slow, and what parts are broken
- It would provide motivation for lower level gods, as they would be able to see activity throughout the different tiers of game implementations
- It would provide Implementers with enough information to make informed decisions on who is dedicated and who should be promoted to fill holes in the process.
Cons:
- It would place a lot more power in the hands of mume's players. (Knowledge is power.. either people will be assured that high-level coders are doing something, or they will demand that they start doing something…, or let someone that can be dedicated take their spot)
- It would take someone with higher-up access to implement, which in and of itself may be difficult to get
- It would (similar to the first point) cause a certain amount of accountability, which may not be desired on higher levels.
- Without a proper understanding of the game implementation process, it may cause some to get an inaccurate depiction of where issues may be (for example, if a certain type of ainur is not needed as much as some other levels, it may be viewed as not having time or not being dedicated)
Anyway, please comment on this (flame as needed). Add pros, cons, or anything else.
Phloxy
One thought I had (please don't shoot me) is for someone to compile a (quarterly... yearly even?) "census" if you will, of all ainur that currently take an active part in furthering mume. (this would include everyone from M all the way up to I). The wizlist could be revised to serve as this, but it would need to be reformatted quite a bit.
Associated with their name could be a type of rating, based on their level of involvement or the amount of time dedicated. Some examples off the cuff might be.
1. Intensely involved on a regual basis (giving between 30-60+ hours a week to furthering mume),
2. Actively involved on a regular basis (giving between 15-30 hours a week to furthering mume),
3. Moderately involved on a regular basas (giving between 5-15 hours a week to furthering mume),
4. Mostly inactive (giving between 0-5 hours a week to furthering mume),
I originally thought about the rating actually being coded into your amount of time logged, but I know this can be skewed by either idlers or by the fact that much work for mume is done while not logged. For this I figured it might be better if everyone were allowed to allocate their own rating. If no rating was listed, it would by default be "Mostly Inactive".
In an attempt to be objective, I thought I might add some pros and cons to this.
Pros:
- It would provide an updated, accurate depiction of who is (or is able to for that matter) giving of their time to mume
- It would provide baseline information regarding what parts of the "chain of implementation steps" are working, what parts are slow, and what parts are broken
- It would provide motivation for lower level gods, as they would be able to see activity throughout the different tiers of game implementations
- It would provide Implementers with enough information to make informed decisions on who is dedicated and who should be promoted to fill holes in the process.
Cons:
- It would place a lot more power in the hands of mume's players. (Knowledge is power.. either people will be assured that high-level coders are doing something, or they will demand that they start doing something…, or let someone that can be dedicated take their spot)
- It would take someone with higher-up access to implement, which in and of itself may be difficult to get
- It would (similar to the first point) cause a certain amount of accountability, which may not be desired on higher levels.
- Without a proper understanding of the game implementation process, it may cause some to get an inaccurate depiction of where issues may be (for example, if a certain type of ainur is not needed as much as some other levels, it may be viewed as not having time or not being dedicated)
Anyway, please comment on this (flame as needed). Add pros, cons, or anything else.
Phloxy
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
This suggestion would definitely add a lot of transparency to the system. Which is good, but dangerous.
In a stable system (as mume is) making frequent big changes would be a very bad thing. So it would amke sense that the implementors don't visit as often / etc. Mume is in a pretty polished state right now. People make decisions from time to time, but we see far from anything that would represent a new version, so it's just minor changes which probably get looked at once every month or so.
I don't have any problem with that. I guess the biggest things are with people who are frustrated by the scout changes (though others have proved its still possible to warlord with them if you're an experienced player), or something else that seems unfair. But these things haven't necessarily been proven to be broken...
In conclusion - I think people's idea of how "alive" mume is, is partially driven by how much it is changing. If it's the same old thing every day, they'll stop coming eventually. A certain amount of newness is required, whether it's new zones, supermobs, races, or major class changes. And things have been a bit quiet lately...
In a stable system (as mume is) making frequent big changes would be a very bad thing. So it would amke sense that the implementors don't visit as often / etc. Mume is in a pretty polished state right now. People make decisions from time to time, but we see far from anything that would represent a new version, so it's just minor changes which probably get looked at once every month or so.
I don't have any problem with that. I guess the biggest things are with people who are frustrated by the scout changes (though others have proved its still possible to warlord with them if you're an experienced player), or something else that seems unfair. But these things haven't necessarily been proven to be broken...
In conclusion - I think people's idea of how "alive" mume is, is partially driven by how much it is changing. If it's the same old thing every day, they'll stop coming eventually. A certain amount of newness is required, whether it's new zones, supermobs, races, or major class changes. And things have been a bit quiet lately...
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
Well seems there are a few ways forward.
One is to keep going forward at the current pace, with the respect intact for old and current contributors. It's fairly stable and maybe new talents replace the old ones. Not much new seems to be happening nowadays though but I actually only judge by checking last years news. A lot of things may be in the pipeline.
I don't think that Phloxy's idea would hurt today. It would show who is active and who is not. Who you can ask for help.
I believe that maybe MUDLLE is the best way forward here anyways.
Usually it is sensitive to take on anyone who say they want to contribute, which MUME realized early on. Just because someone knows MUDLLE you don't want him to know the inner secrets of Moria. Being Vala - Muddler does not give you access to the source code which makes it a lot less sensitive but you still want the person to have built at least a zone to show dedication and have proven to be an active player.
Seems to me that we need the well-known active players to build a zone and learn MUDLLE. And show that they are fairly trustworthy. I say fairly because as long as new coders don't break the game I will state that today MUME contains very few secrets. But I don't know
Anyone can download MUDLLE from http://mume.org/Download/. Given proper instructions any dedicated Maia can learn it. I wish someone had taught me and shown me step by step how to use it, babysitting me. Encouraging Maia to learn it while writing zones and showing their dedication may help. This will make people show dedication which is always important as it is a cost for trust.
Up until now the normal way of communication between players have been ingame, via boards, and via email or ingame mail. This made it hard to teach MUDLLE. Now we have a much better way: This forum.
Maybe this forum should have a MUDLLE school where old contributors are asked to help out by just looking there and answering now and then? Even if there is no teacher 5 engaged players who discover and explain MUDLLE between themselves could help. Optimum would be if anyone willing to learn MUDLLE receives a personal contact who tries to answer all questions.
I guess making a MUDLLE installation for Windows isn't easy but if that is possible it would probably be fantastic.
Get the code rolling:)
One is to keep going forward at the current pace, with the respect intact for old and current contributors. It's fairly stable and maybe new talents replace the old ones. Not much new seems to be happening nowadays though but I actually only judge by checking last years news. A lot of things may be in the pipeline.
I don't think that Phloxy's idea would hurt today. It would show who is active and who is not. Who you can ask for help.
I believe that maybe MUDLLE is the best way forward here anyways.
Usually it is sensitive to take on anyone who say they want to contribute, which MUME realized early on. Just because someone knows MUDLLE you don't want him to know the inner secrets of Moria. Being Vala - Muddler does not give you access to the source code which makes it a lot less sensitive but you still want the person to have built at least a zone to show dedication and have proven to be an active player.
Seems to me that we need the well-known active players to build a zone and learn MUDLLE. And show that they are fairly trustworthy. I say fairly because as long as new coders don't break the game I will state that today MUME contains very few secrets. But I don't know
Anyone can download MUDLLE from http://mume.org/Download/. Given proper instructions any dedicated Maia can learn it. I wish someone had taught me and shown me step by step how to use it, babysitting me. Encouraging Maia to learn it while writing zones and showing their dedication may help. This will make people show dedication which is always important as it is a cost for trust.
Up until now the normal way of communication between players have been ingame, via boards, and via email or ingame mail. This made it hard to teach MUDLLE. Now we have a much better way: This forum.
Maybe this forum should have a MUDLLE school where old contributors are asked to help out by just looking there and answering now and then? Even if there is no teacher 5 engaged players who discover and explain MUDLLE between themselves could help. Optimum would be if anyone willing to learn MUDLLE receives a personal contact who tries to answer all questions.
I guess making a MUDLLE installation for Windows isn't easy but if that is possible it would probably be fantastic.
Get the code rolling:)
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
Learning how to code mudlle is trivial for anyone who has a background with computer science. The real problem is knowing all the hooks and functions that mudlle has with MUME. What they provide on the website is the language itself, with no links to MUME at all.
Re: How do we groom new leaders of MUME?
I think MUME today has more secrets than people believe, especially "how things work in specific" is not clear for many, many things. And it's good that way.
A lot of the game is actually mudlle and basically every "newer" game content.
Sadly, letting builders learn mudlle isn't possible. Ilie tried to make mudlle available to Maiar as I understood it but mudlle is too deeply intervoven with the technological basis and WAY too complex to limit all abuseable possibilities.
Also, the problem with builders is that many, many quit sooner or later, even many good ones leave. So, most leave before they can show they are reliable simply because work on MUME can become WORK, that's true for building as for code. You need people who still will stick around, even when they realise they have to sink a lot of time into the game AND who are reliable and somewhat sensitive AND have a clean background AND can code for AND think they still have enough free RL-time at least for the next year. It's no surprise there are not a thousand candidates on a game like MUME.
(Example: In one of the zones that started in Nov 2007 I have already seven builders in the credits, eight of you count the work I did there. The builders left for various reasons... some had no more time, others did not even call back, ...).
An up-to-date wizlist would replace Pholxys idea nicely.
But if you want to know whom you can ask... just ask someone. Force and me are good candidates for most day-to-day business and bug Naga about all LH-related stuff.
You can report bugs via the board and in "emergencys" (you are stuck somewhere) you have left with "pray" and praying anyone is around to help you out.
A lot of the game is actually mudlle and basically every "newer" game content.
Sadly, letting builders learn mudlle isn't possible. Ilie tried to make mudlle available to Maiar as I understood it but mudlle is too deeply intervoven with the technological basis and WAY too complex to limit all abuseable possibilities.
Also, the problem with builders is that many, many quit sooner or later, even many good ones leave. So, most leave before they can show they are reliable simply because work on MUME can become WORK, that's true for building as for code. You need people who still will stick around, even when they realise they have to sink a lot of time into the game AND who are reliable and somewhat sensitive AND have a clean background AND can code for AND think they still have enough free RL-time at least for the next year. It's no surprise there are not a thousand candidates on a game like MUME.
(Example: In one of the zones that started in Nov 2007 I have already seven builders in the credits, eight of you count the work I did there. The builders left for various reasons... some had no more time, others did not even call back, ...).
An up-to-date wizlist would replace Pholxys idea nicely.
But if you want to know whom you can ask... just ask someone. Force and me are good candidates for most day-to-day business and bug Naga about all LH-related stuff.
You can report bugs via the board and in "emergencys" (you are stuck somewhere) you have left with "pray" and praying anyone is around to help you out.