Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

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Azazello
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Azazello » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:50 pm

Razoor wrote:Azazello, I may be biased, but wouldn't it be silly to argue from a perspective of which I
dont know as much? Sort of like what you're doing right now about thieves? ;)

I've spent at least 50% of my time on MUME over the past 3-4 years playing scout,
i think my comments have merit. It may seem biased to you because it involves specifics
from my playstyle, but the points are still valid imo.
When you say you are fucked up in 2 rooms vs a mage i have to doubt you have any understanding at all :-/

Razoor
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:20 am

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Razoor » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:34 pm

Where did i say that? I merely stated that if these changes take effect, escape will be useless in a 2-roomer
against casters, and i stand for that opinion :)

Mindy
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Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:38 am

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Mindy » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:48 pm

escape is useless against puke casters even in a 4 exit room. i was playing zorc scout on testmume vs araniz and i typed escape east just after he began his spell. escape was simply not quick enough, not to mention that if you fail 1 escape you eat 2 sprays not 1 (yes he was colour spraying me so lightning bolt will be even worse for puke scouts trying to escape). tried it multiple times, but same result because escape speed doesn't vary. If you want scouts to use it in pk, you need to make it so that:

-its as fast or quite nearly as fast as normal flee
-just like flee, if you fail an escape you automatically try again unless you cancel the command by pressing enter.

otherwise its simply an easier way to xp but no one would bother with the 16 practices.

Azazello
Posts: 119
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Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Azazello » Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:38 pm

Razoor wrote: If you consider a fight in oakendoor, moldywall and oakendoor blocked. Scout vs mage.
What will happen is that the mage will spam close pegs;qbolt;close pegs;qbolt. This forces
the thief to do escape;open pegs;d. If the mage then does d;qbolt;u;qbolt;d;qbolt, the thief
will be unable to do anything else than spamming escape for the whole fight, rendering him
completely out of control and unable to attack. Since the mage will be INSTANTLY after him
in the next room, you will have to eat 1 qbolt for each pierce you land. There is no way you have
time to go down+hit since you have sneakdelay and the mage has prespammed.
You are claiming that thief is in trouble in 2 rooms vs mage. This is however completelly not true.
Thief still has a very god chance of killing the mage, but any means. Turn off sneak, flee, pierce and/or
shoot.
Heck, if the mage has no stores, he will be quite dead. Otherwise it's all about the kill of both players.
Currently thief has much higher chances then the mage.

You somehow say that thief HAS to use escape, which is not true. That thief has no other opportunities,
which is again not true.

I do not count charmies or quakes in 1 room. Those are a bit different and our of the scope here.

Razoor
Posts: 77
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:20 am

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Razoor » Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:30 am

Yes, and my point is that if noone will use it then where is the use of adding it? What does it add to the
gaming experience? Read Mindy's post for example and you'll understand that the whole concept of escape is
not gonna work for PK against certain classes (or at all?). People will rather turn sneak off and flee around, rather than wasting 4 seconds
(what's that, 2 hitrounds) trying to get sneaky again. Sure it may be more realistic for closeable fighting, but realism is not
always the way to go.

And if you ask me about the oakendoor scenario and sneak off, I'd say the mage has a decent chance if he uses the doors
well. Failed flees is a great weapon.

Anyway no use arguing, we just have different opinions. Just be happy you're not a fan of sneaking classes...but at least
I wouldn't ever get fled into a closeable again :)

Azazello
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:09 pm

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Azazello » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:25 pm

The point is that before the change mage had virtually no chance beating experienced thief.
Of course a much better chance then beating experienced solo troll :-)
After the change mage vs thief in 2 rooms is more even.
And you still can use sneak if there is more space, like 5-6 rooms, pretty much in your favour.

Wobbler
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:02 pm

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Wobbler » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:42 pm

I can't connect to port 4001, isn't a new iteration supposed to be up and running there?
Politicians are wise and benevolent and will gladly sacrifice themselves for the common good. Anyone who implies that there might exist dishonest politicians is obviously a terrorist who should be locked up indefinitely without a trial.

Rik
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Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Rik » Thu Mar 20, 2008 5:24 pm

Maybe we could have an escape flag?
When you have it on it tries to escape X times (X to be set? or 1?) in the direction you type when you're engaged, if off you have to manually escape. This would ease exping a lot.

Dak
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:34 am

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Dak » Thu Mar 20, 2008 7:51 pm

I still think the solution to this could be that if you fail first escape your next one is auto like flee and in a random direction. You will not sneak into the next room as you do with a successful escape.

kogan
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:57 pm

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by kogan » Fri Mar 21, 2008 4:50 pm

Ilie wrote:A thread for feedback on the changes on testmume. Please test it before coming with iput & opinions.

All these changes are relative to the real MUME, not to the previous test version.

ESCAPE
Escape is now twice as fast.
Escaping from a single opponent is a tad harder.
Escaping from multiple opponents is a lot easier.
[/list]
Why should it be easier to escape from multiple opponents ?
For example if you fight like 5 ppl! You're something like encircled ! Hard to escape from the middle ...

If you fight one on one ... you just turn around and move away ... there is only one single person who can prevent you and not 5!

Hmm. As far as i have seen: You really thought about it :mrgreen:

Aloeen
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:46 pm

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Aloeen » Fri Mar 21, 2008 6:06 pm

I agree with Razoor in everything he has said so far, so no need for me to explain myself farther.

Snarp
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:09 am

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Snarp » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:40 am

Razoor has the most reliable information and knowledge about thieves. He's my goto guy when I have a question. So I trust what he says.

Kenzu
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Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Kenzu » Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:09 am

Snarp wrote:Razoor has the most reliable information and knowledge about thieves. He's my goto guy when I have a question. So I trust what he says.
I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not... I understand he used to play thief a lot (unless he's playing one now).

-Kenzu
Armies of the West:
Ambassador, Antar, Ardent, Arrogance, Earand, Furor, Gennessie, Greed, Kessfare, Lief, Schmidt, Vulpine

Forces of the Dark Lord:
Braddock, Gloomer, Inhale, Massacre, Perfection, Scary, Serpentor, Shriek, Tomax, Wridush

Mhoghedin
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Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Mhoghedin » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:48 pm

Well, I hate scout class to begin with, its hard to move from mage (fast damage very quickly) to scout (tickle your enemy to death if you fail backstab), plus I think that I will suck even MORE at scout now that they changed it.

SO, I just repracced my scout to a high per-warrior with missile skill. We'll see how it works *cough* No more sneak/backstab for me!
Formerly a dastardly pirate of the Western Sea, he now contents
himself with rowing around the Greyflood of Tharbad in a canoe.
Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Over 1000 whities have been sent to Davey Jones' Locker.

Kenzu
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Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Kenzu » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:16 pm

Mhoghedin wrote:Well, I hate scout class to begin with, its hard to move from mage (fast damage very quickly) to scout (tickle your enemy to death if you fail backstab), plus I think that I will suck even MORE at scout now that they changed it.

SO, I just repracced my scout to a high per-warrior with missile skill. We'll see how it works *cough* No more sneak/backstab for me!
That's why I made a new scout to get good at them!

-Kenzu
Armies of the West:
Ambassador, Antar, Ardent, Arrogance, Earand, Furor, Gennessie, Greed, Kessfare, Lief, Schmidt, Vulpine

Forces of the Dark Lord:
Braddock, Gloomer, Inhale, Massacre, Perfection, Scary, Serpentor, Shriek, Tomax, Wridush

Snarp
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:09 am

Re: Testmume feedback on scout changes revision 2

Post by Snarp » Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:36 am

Kenzu wrote:
Snarp wrote:Razoor has the most reliable information and knowledge about thieves. He's my goto guy when I have a question. So I trust what he says.
I'm not sure if that was sarcasm or not... I understand he used to play thief a lot (unless he's playing one now).

-Kenzu
It was not sarcastic, he is probably the best thief player :P

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